85 messages over 11 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 6 ... 10 11 Next >>
iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5043 days ago
2237 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 41 of 85 18 February 2014 at 9:28pm | IP Logged |
Thanks Ogrim and geoffw. I'd read the article in El País and The Jewish Daily Forward. The JDF article referred to a press conference about the proposal in 2012, from whence the fiasco ensued. Hopefully, this time, it is a genuine attempt to make right a historic wrong with the actual passing of the law. This could be a fascinating development in the saga of "los ekspulsados". There's been a lot of discussion about it over at the ladinokomunita forum and eSefarad. Many are of the opinion that it will be extremely difficult to obtain.
viktor... wrote:
| Aze 3 anyos ke mandi mis papeles para obtenerlo, asta agora nada por nada. No penses ke sera fasil. ... -EN: 3 years ago I filed my papers to get it, so far, nothing. Don't think it will be easy |
|
|
Also in ladinokomunita:
Rachel Bortnick Amado (founder of ladinokomunita) wrote:
Vide ke en eSefarad de oy ay munchos artikolos sovre la ley pendiente en Espanya de dar nasionalita a los sefaradis. Ma este artikolo de oy amostra ke no es ora ayinda de aprontar las validjas.
EN: I saw today in eSefarad that there are many articles about the pending law in Spain to give Spanish nationality to the Sephardim. But this article today shows that it isn't time yet to pack the bags. NYT Article Spanish Citizenship for Descendents of Expelled Jews |
|
|
Here's an excerpt from the article:
NYT wrote:
...Rachel Delia Benaim, an American student living in New York who has Sephardic ancestry, said by email that being allowed to keep her United States citizenship made the Spanish offer “a lot more appealing.” But she remained wary about how certification would ultimately be granted by Spain and said, “Any excitement about the legislation is premature.”
Jacob Levy, an American retiree, said he had lost interest in getting a Spanish passport after his attempts last year to find out more about Spain’s preliminary offer were frustrated by Spanish diplomats. “I’m not in any rush to apply again,” he said in an email., “as I’m too angry at the behavior of the Spanish Consulate in New York.”
In response to queries, the Spanish foreign ministry is now distributing via its embassies and consulates a statement explaining that it might take several months for Parliament to approve the bill, and that once it became law, the time for submitting applications would be limited. Through the reform, it added, Spain “wishes to acknowledge the relevance of the Sephardic legacy in its history and culture.”
...A delegation of top American Jewish leaders was visiting Spain last week for high-level meetings, including with King Juan Carlos. Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, said in a statement that Spain’s citizenship bill would “help assure that the history of the violence and exile will never be forgotten.”
In what appeared to be a reciprocal gesture, Natan Sharansky, chairman of the quasi-governmental Jewish Agency for Israel, estimated that there were millions of descendants worldwide of “conversos,” Jews who converted to Catholicism under duress in medieval Spain, including hundreds of thousands who were exploring ways of returning to their Jewish roots.
“The state of Israel must ease the way for their return,” Mr. Sharansky said. |
|
|
For those who speak/understand Spanish, there's some interesting background in Judeo-Espanyol written by Albert Tari-Nasi in a post at ladinokomunita.
It remains to be seen if the hoops to jump through will be too many or too onerous for many Sephardim to take advantage of the offer. "Nunka es tadre para bien azer"- it's never too late to do good.
Edited by iguanamon on 19 February 2014 at 1:56am
2 persons have voted this message useful
| Ogrim
Heptaglot
Senior Member
France
Joined 4420 days ago
991 posts - 1896 votes
Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian
Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian
| Message 42 of 85 19 February 2014 at 10:38am | IP Logged |
Very interesting supplementary information to the article in El Pais, iguanamon and geoffw. It seems a lot of people have understood the news as if the law was already in place, when actually it still has to go through all the parliamentary procedures and be approved by both el Congerso de los diputados and el Senado. This will still take some months I guess.
Anyway, if you are interested in the text of the "anteproyecto de ley", you can find it here.
2 persons have voted this message useful
| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5043 days ago
2237 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 43 of 85 24 February 2014 at 6:18pm | IP Logged |
Thanks, Ogrim, for the link to the text of the proposed law for Spanish Nationality for "los ekspulsados". On paper, this looks like a genuine attempt to make right a grievous, historic wrong.
This week, I took off for a week to visit my parents, off-island. So,I didn't do too much in Ladino. I finished going over Lesson 2 of The Manual of Judeo-Spanish and I like this book more and more. It is inconsistent with the spelling standards of Aki Yerushalayim and Beginner's Ladino but the book is very thorough and has useful, natural speed audio not just of the dialogs but also songs/"kantikas". I listened again to all of lesson 2 on the plane ride home, twice.
I have finished Chapter 4 of El Princhipiko in Rashi script. And have read 4 chapters of A Jewish Voice from Ottoman Salonica. The differences between reading a translation and authentic native-language writing are huge. Both have their uses. El Princhipiko is useful because of the clear Rashi print and my familiarity with the story, having read it in Spanish, Portuguese and Haitian Creole. I get to learn both reading in Rashi and new vocabulary/grammar, however; A Jewish Voice from Ottoman Salonica is on a different level entirely. The story has lots of Hebrew and Turkish vocabulary to learn. The memoir is a like a trip back in time to a Ladino-speaking, Sephardic majority Salonica that no longer exists, to radical fundamentalist Rabbis issuing excommunication orders, shunning and curses, right and left to consolidate and exercise their power over the community.
I continue to find more internet resources for Ladino. I found an online corpus from France Collections de Corpus Oraux Numériques- Judéo-espagnol which has audio/text and a French translation. This corpus collection covers a large amount of rare languages (too many to count) and all the minority languages of France- including Breton, Alsatian, several regional varieties of French and three flavors of Occitan.
Also, I came across, from the website of El Instituto Maale Adumim, the Bazas de datos en Internet which is a collection of thousands of idiomatic phrases defined monolingually in Ladino. This is searchable by keyword as well- a veritable goldmine.
Still, I am mindful that, without people for conversation, without a 100 episode telenovela in Ladino and without a private tutor to iron out my issues, there's only so far I can go with this dying (dead?)language. That being said, Ladino is coming alive for me. I am enjoying learning about this lesser known and fascinating culture through it's language.
Adyo
Edited by iguanamon on 25 February 2014 at 12:36pm
3 persons have voted this message useful
| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5043 days ago
2237 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 44 of 85 24 February 2014 at 10:37pm | IP Logged |
Un eshemplo del Corpus "COCOON" del Djudeo-Espanyol The audio is downloadable. When the play button is pressed at the beginning of the first sentence the lines highlight as they are spoken. This is highly useful to me.
COllections de COrpus Oraux Numérique- COCOON wrote:
LOC: De mi padre? De mi padre te puedo avlar, ez muy kolay.
De mon père? Je peux te parler de mon père, c'est très simple.
S2
Mi padre, al prisipyo, kuando era manseviko, ambezó para ser... para ser saydjí.
Au début, lorsqu'il était tout jeune, mon père apprit le métier de "saydji".
S3
Saydjí ez un nombre déjà turko, mais ça veut dire "horloger". Voilà, esto ambezó.
"Saydji" est un mot turc déjà mais ça veut dire "horloger". Voilà ce qu'il apprit.
S4
I esto era in su mansevez, después stuvo yamado al suldado.
Et ça, c'était dans sa jeunesse; après il fût appelé au service militaire.
S5
I kuando stuvo yamado al suldado, ez Austr...
Et quand il fut appelé au service militaire, c'était l'Autr...
S6
ez soldado austríyako para mor ke stamos debasho de las Austria.
c'était le service militaire autrichien parce que nous étions sous l'Autriche.
S7
Kuando stuvo yamado ala… al suldado, eran trez anyos, in estos trej anyos vinyeron tres fijus,
Quand il fut appelé au… au service militaire, c'était trois ans, durant ces trois années lui naquirent trois fils,
S8
ke izo, para mor ke, por lo ke vinyeron, para mor de... Onde servira?
qu'il fit à cause de, qui naquirent parce que, à cause de... Où fit-il son service?
S9
El sirvyó il suldado a Saray mizmo e ansina teniya derecho de vinir in kaza e vinyendo in kaza, fizo tres fijus. Voilà.
Il fit son service à Sarajevo même et c'est ainsi qu'il avait le droit de rentrer à la maison et venant à la maison, il fit trois fils. Voilà.
S10
Todo sta ermozo, mais… El ultimo kuando, kero dizir, kuando nasal, ya hue la gera.
Tout cela est très beau, mais… Quand le dernier, je veux dire, quand le dernier naquit, c'était déjà la guerre.
S11
Ya hue la gera, i naturalmente ke kalyó komo todos ir a harvar, a… a matar.
C'était déjà la guerre, et naturellement que comme chacun, il dut partir pour se battre, pour… pour tuer.
S12
El tuvo mazal, tuvo mazal, ke kuando vino una bomba, una bomba vino,
Il eut de la chance, il eut la chance que quand tomba une bombe, quand une bombe tomba,
S13
dyo in un arvole grande, djusto ande stuvo il komandante suyo.
elle frappa un grand arbre, juste là où se trouvait son commandant.
S14
El komandante stuvo a... amatado i él kalyó ke griti aaa... aa... kalyó, komo dizen eyos...
Le commandant fut t... tué et [mon père> dut crier aaa… aa…, il dut, comment disent-ils...
S15
"en avant! en avant!... en avant!" e en yugoslava : "napred, napred, ayde nad! ". Bon.
"en avant! en avant!... en avant!" et en yougoslave "napred! napred! ayde nad!". Bon.
S16
Mais vidu tantus muertus, tantus muertus vidu, ke dishu, i él stuvo ferido, estuvo ferido,
Mais il vit tant de morts, tant de morts il vit, qu'il dit... lui aussi fut blessé,
S17
in basha asperando ke venga la, la... Croix Rouge, komo dizire, ke venga,
il fut blessé, attendant au sol que vienne la, la... Croix Rouge, comme on dit, qu'elle vienne,
S18
ke lo tomen para el mandar al eshpital.
qu'ils le prennent pour l'envoyer à l'hôpital.
S19
Lo tomaron tarde la noche, lo tomaron, lo yevaron al eshpital, i dishu, estando ferido, disho in el mizmo:
l'emmenèrent tard dans la nuit, ils l'emmenèrent, le portèrent à l'hôpital et étant blessé, il dit, il se dit à lui-même:
S20
"Si yo mi sana di ver mis fijus, yo me vo dar al Dyo".
"Si jamais je guéris et que je peux revoir mes enfants, je me consacrerai à Dieu"
S21
I ansina hue ke kuando vino, la gera s'eskapó, ke el estava mijor, primero de todo lo ke fizo,
et il en fut ainsi: quand il rentra, la guerre était finie, il allait mieux et la première chose qu'il fit
S22
se fue ande rabenu grande demandande ke el kere ambezar para ser hazán, para ser... rabbin.
fut de se rendre chez le Grand Rabbin pour lui dire qu’il voulait être formé afin de devenir chantre [de synagogue>, de devenir... rabbin |
|
|
Edited by iguanamon on 25 February 2014 at 3:57pm
1 person has voted this message useful
| Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 4947 days ago
3335 posts - 4349 votes
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian
| Message 45 of 85 24 February 2014 at 10:58pm | IP Logged |
These languages have to be really obscure at that corpus. No Georgian or Papiamento :/
OTOH, there's Bulgaro-Macedonian and Vietnamese. Go figure.
1 person has voted this message useful
| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5043 days ago
2237 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 46 of 85 25 February 2014 at 3:54pm | IP Logged |
I often talk about how Twitter is a help to me in learning languages. I follow accounts tweeting in all my languages, though Ladino tweets are rare. Yesterday a Ladino singer I follow Tweeted a link to this article from a professor at the Sephardic Studies program at the University of Washington: Why I’m Teaching a New Generation to Read and Write Ladino
David M. Bunis, Professor, University of Washington Sephardic Studies wrote:
Until World War II, the majority of Ladino (or Judezmo) speakers throughout the world wrote their language in the Hebrew alphabet. They used Merubá or “regular Square” letters for titles and bold-face, and so-called Rashí letters for the bulk of the text. The literature produced in Ladino in the Hebrew alphabet was diverse in content as well as style....Teaching young people Ladino in the traditional Hebrew alphabet is not merely a quaint subject of historical interest; it is also the aim of a UW course being offered twice a week during the 2014 winter quarter. In my Ladino for Beginners class, undergraduates with diverse majors such as Jewish Studies, Spanish, Linguistics, and Psychology, as well as community students participating in the university’s Access Program, are actively being trained to read the Rashí-letter works which form part of the Seattle Sephardic Treasures collection, as well as other Ladino texts....
...The extraordinary results already attained by the over 20 participants can be seen in their homework assignments, which illustrate the beautiful Rashí-character Ladino handwriting acquired by all students taking the course. The UW is, as far as I know, the only institute of higher learning in the country where this kind of training is taking place!
I’ve been teaching Ladino in the Hebrew alphabet for many years: mostly at my home institution, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and this year at UW, where I’m spending my sabbatical as a Schusterman Visiting Professor of Israel Studies. Each time I begin the Ladino for Beginners course, I’m reminded of the excitement I myself experienced many years ago, as a young college student, when I opened a thin envelope sent to me from Jerusalem by an elderly Sephardi who had grown up in Izmir. The envelope contained a small, illustrated booklet published in the 1920s to teach young Sephardim in Salonika to read their communal language in Rashí characters. From the booklet I, too, began to learn to read Ladino in Rashí—and to make my way toward a lifelong career in Ladino studies.
Since then, whenever I teach young people to read Ladino in Rashí characters, I always hope they will experience the same wonder and delight I felt upon entering the world of the Ladino-speaking Jews of Turkey and the Balkans through the letters with which they so deeply identified. I also hope my students will continue to read Ladino in Rashí long after they complete the course, both for their own enrichment, and to help extend the life of this now-endangered Sephardic tradition. |
|
|
Student Work Sample:
1 person has voted this message useful
| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5043 days ago
2237 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 47 of 85 27 February 2014 at 6:23pm | IP Logged |
A dead language walking-
La Tribuna de Toledo wrote:
| La investigadora del CSIC Elena Romero, profesora ad honorem del Instituto de Lenguas y Culturas del Mediterráneo y Oriente Próximo del CSIC, se refirió durante su última conferencia en Toledo -‘La mujer sefardí en el Imperio Otomano y en los Balcanes’, organizada por el Museo Sefardí y pronunciada en el auditorio de la Real Fundación de Toledo- a la paulatina reducción del número de judíos sefardíes capaces de expresarse en judeoespañol. «Es casi imposible, en nuestros días, encontrar sefardófonos activos por debajo de los cincuenta años», una tendencia que ya ha puesto en guardia a ciertas instituciones educativas y culturales.... |
|
|
source
For those who can't read Spanish, the researcher of the CSIC (Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas) says that it is almost impossible to find Ladino-speakers under 50 years of age. This has put certain educational and cultural institutions on alert.
It's not really news to me but it does confirm what I have observed anecdotally. As emk says in his definition of a "dead" language, there is, sadly, no playground full of children playing and speaking Ladino to each other. This will make my reading of In Search of a Lost Ladino more poignant.
Amazon.com wrote:
| ...This ... memoir was originally written in Judeo-Spanish, the language of the Jews of the Ottoman Empire and of Marcel Cohen's own childhood; it was later translated by the author himself into French. The book (which appears in this edition both in English and the Ladino original) is, writes Cohen, "more or less what my mind retains of the five centuries that my ancestors spent in Turkey." A haunting journey into personal and collective memory, it is also a meditation on a dying language and in fact a dying way of life—that of the Sephardic Jews of Salonica, Istanbul, and other points east.... |
|
|
Edited by iguanamon on 27 February 2014 at 9:45pm
1 person has voted this message useful
| Crush
Tetraglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5646 days ago
1622 posts - 2299 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto
Studies: Basque
| Message 48 of 85 01 March 2014 at 5:58am | IP Logged |
Adding to the list of recent articles on Ladino, i just got an e-mail linking to this article today. Had it not been for this log, i probably would've just passed right over it ;)
2 persons have voted this message useful
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum
This page was generated in 0.8281 seconds.
DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
|
Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log
Printable version
