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Propedeutic languages (+Dutch/Afrikaans)

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
17 messages over 3 pages: 1 2 3  Next >>
tristano
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
Joined 3168 days ago

905 posts - 1262 votes 
Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 1 of 17
30 January 2014 at 9:12am | IP Logged 
Hi all!
I read extensively that exist languages that are propedeutic to the study of another
language or languages of a specific family, for example Esperanto and Interlingua for the
study of Romance languages.
There are more examples, not only with constructed languages but also with natural ones?

Second question: if I decided to stop studying Dutch and study Afrikaans to reach
fluency, I waste my time and I ruin my Dutch or I can find myself after this path
enriched in what are comprehension, reading, listening and speaking (with the necessary
study of Dutch grammar and vocabulary) with the added value to know one more language?

Sorry for the really naive question :) Thank you in advance!
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 5824 days ago

9078 posts - 16472 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
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 Message 2 of 17
30 January 2014 at 9:51am | IP Logged 
Several studies have indicated that you can learn a third language faster if you first learn Esperanto than if you head directly for the 'real' target language. The reason can only be that you learn how to study by trying it out on a reasonably easy language. And according to these studies you save so much time on the third language that it 'pays' the time you spend on Esperanto. OK, maybe. The problem with this argument is however that few students feel like postponing their main 'big' language, and Esperanto can't compete on usefulness with for instance English, Spanish or French.

The same argument can be brought forward with the idea about Afrikaans as a propedeutic language. Afrikaans certainly has a simpler morphology than Dutch, no doubt about that, but unless you are based in Southern Africa it will be much harder to find things to read and listen to and people to talk to, and even though there are millions of Afrikaans speakers in South Africa you will find that English totally dominates the media. Whether Afrikaans will ruin your Dutch is another matter. I doubt it, but few Europeans learn Afrikaans before Dutch so it is mostly a matter of guesswork based on my work with other language pairs, where I consistently have found that the risk of interference is more than compensated by the amount of vocabulary you get for free.

Edited by Iversen on 30 January 2014 at 9:54am

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1e4e6
Octoglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian
Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan

 
 Message 3 of 17
30 January 2014 at 9:59am | IP Logged 
I am not sure if that is a good idea, because if you already right now learn Dutch, and
are living in the Netherlands, the addition of Afrikaans, whilst similar has spelling and
syntax that might confuse your Dutch, e.g. the usage of "wees" as the infinitive instead
of "zijn". Also, it might cause the Afrikaans vocabulary to be confused with Dutch, and
since you work in the Netherlands, they might be confused on why you might start to speak
half Dutch half Afrikaans.
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 3828 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 4 of 17
30 January 2014 at 10:06am | IP Logged 
Studying Afrikaans will help your Dutch, except for the pronunciation.

The use of "wees" isn't a problem - Dutch uses "wezen" as an infinitive in colloquial
language and it's understood by everyone.

"Dat kan best wezen" (That could be, but...)
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Fasulye
Heptaglot
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Germany
fasulyespolyglotblog
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Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto
Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish
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 Message 5 of 17
30 January 2014 at 10:55am | IP Logged 
The teachers told us at grammar school that our language Latin would be useful for us as a propedeutic language to learn the other school language French and other Romance languages later.

My exprecience is that a certain knowledge of Latin especially helps with learning Italian.

Fasulye

Edited by Fasulye on 30 January 2014 at 10:56am

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 3828 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 6 of 17
30 January 2014 at 10:56am | IP Logged 
I studied Latin and French concomitantly - that also helped.
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Cavesa
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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 Message 7 of 17
30 January 2014 at 12:51pm | IP Logged 
Yes, Latin has been recommended to many of us. An English teacher of mine had studied only latin until he was 20 and than became polyglot. He claimed Latin had given him good base for is other languages.

The impact on romance languages is quite clear. And any of them will actually seem really easy after the experience with Latin :-D

For Germanic and slavic languages, there will still be a lot of shared vocabulary and a lot of grammar working similarily. Sometimes, the analogies and similarities are even surprising, there are many of them.

For others it can still work at least as the language on which you've learnt how to learn a language.

However, I believe you still need to want to learn Latin in the first place. For anyone who doesn't want to, it is unnecessary postponing of a language they want and sometimes even too much unnecessary work.

So, I think that you shouldn't make such an exchange if you have already been working on Dutch. What if the two start interfering? And do you wish to start using Dutch asap or do you wish to be awesome at it asap? However, if your plan is to learn both, it may be a totally different situation.
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tristano
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
Joined 3168 days ago

905 posts - 1262 votes 
Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 8 of 17
30 January 2014 at 3:55pm | IP Logged 
Thank you all! Let's see...
@Iversen, my idea is exactly what is claimed about conlangs, but transferred to
Afrikaans. Being the grammar simple and regular, it allows me to focus on the content
(vocabulary) without grammatical distractions. This is the idea (that can obviously be
totally wrong). My main problem now is that the Dutch vocabulary is somewhat huge and
the spoken language hard to get for me, just to not mention the problem every one has
with Dutch speakers (everyone knows English and usually better than me). That's why,
also if there aren't many Afrikaans speaker my point is to have a base to understand
spoken language. My question was if it makes sense that if I understand Afrikaans first
(is it faster, in theory. or not?) then I will understand Dutch more and have a good
base before to go deeper into Dutch.

@Cavesa, my idea is not to study them together. Is to stop studying Dutch for 6 month
or 1 year, studying Afrikaans meanwhile and retake Dutch after. I feel like I can use
Dutch only when I'll be awesome at it because the first word I don't get people start
to speak English. Learn both is a nice addition...

About Latin, If I understood correctly is a great school to learn grammars... but
grammar is not my main problem in Dutch (I surely have to study it, but I'm not scaried
about it). I feel that can be great to do if I have to study German or Russian... I'm
not sure as propedeutic for Dutch.

But in any case... I'm here to ask, because I don't have the answers :)


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