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(Not) speaking French in Montreal | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| aabram Pentaglot Senior Member Estonia Joined 5327 days ago 138 posts - 263 votes  Speaks: Estonian*, English, Spanish, Russian, Finnish Studies: Mandarin, French | Message 1 of 14 25 February 2014 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have a question about the prevalence of French in Quebec, particularly in Montreal.
As it happens I might be moving to Montreal for some period of time but my French is rudimentary. I'm already acquainting myself with French but I have no idea how much will I able to learn before landing there. What is the language situation in Montreal really like? What am I to expect living there, but speaking minimal French? At this moment I'm not yet concerning myself with differences between Quebecois and european French. Should I be? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5326 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 14 25 February 2014 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
There's a nice discussion here. Their conclusion: It's easy to get by as an English-speaking tourist, but if you're looking for a job, monolingual English speakers are at a substantial disadvantage, because the English-only jobs tend to be very competitive. There are some areas around Montreal where almost everybody I meet is capable of a credible job in both languages, and language choice is largely about efficiency and politeness: who's going to do the extra work of speaking their L2?
You'll certainly have no problem speaking European French to people and making yourself understood. Listening comprehension is a bit harder. I never devoted any particular time to understanding the Quebec accent, and up until I was a very strong B2, I found it to be pretty incomprehensible. But once my listening comprehension was good enough to channel-surf on French television, the Quebec accent became much easier to understand. And for the most part, the only difference between "formal" Quebec French and European French seems to be the accent (and a few bits of vocabulary), at least in my limited personal experience. There's also a casual register which is supposedly very different, but it's not something I've run into very much around Montreal. So advanced speakers of European French should adjust to Montreal fairly easily, but beginners may struggle to understand unless they make a special effort. Anyway, this is just the perspective of somebody who visits Montreal every couple of months, and who hangs around in a very bilingual neighborhood. We have quite a few Montreal locals here who can give you better advice. Edited by emk on 25 February 2014 at 4:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| aabram Pentaglot Senior Member Estonia Joined 5327 days ago 138 posts - 263 votes Speaks: Estonian*, English, Spanish, Russian, Finnish Studies: Mandarin, French | Message 3 of 14 25 February 2014 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks for the input, I'm going to read that other thread you linked to. I'm not looking to enter local labour market there, but I may stay up to six months so I'm interested in general attitude since we're going to have to rent a flat, go shopping, deal with cable company, bank etc. Am I going to be looked down upon for not speaking French? I'm going to use it as an opportunity to learn French but I'm curious of how the whole thing is likely to turn out before I can actually speak somewhat decent French. Edited by aabram on 25 February 2014 at 4:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5326 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 4 of 14 25 February 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Again, I can only go by my personal experience, which is mostly shopping, eating out, one trip to the emergency room, some random conversations with a babysitter and random people on the street, etc., over the course of several years. But in all that time, I've never had somebody from Montreal be rude to me about language issues. Not once. They've happily spoken English, even when it was a struggle for them, and they've been very polite about my efforts to speak French. If anything, their only failing is that they're sometimes too nice: Even when I'm completely at ease in French, they'll occasionally switch to English just to be welcoming. As far as I can tell, most Montrealers seem to be operating under the following rules: 1. Try to never be rude or awkward about language choice. 2. Try to speak whichever language allows the most efficient communication. Here's how it felt for me, back in the day: Being a monolingual English speaker in Montreal is a bit like having nice neighbors who always invite you over for dinner. But you have no oven, so you can never return the favor. And even though they're terribly friendly about it, you start to feel bad, because you're often eating at their house, and they never eat at yours. Learning French is sort of like buying an oven, so you can invite the nice neighbors to your house, too. Of course you could just take their dinner invitations for granted, and act you had a right to always eat dinner at their house, in which case you might eventually wear out your welcome. There was also a great blog post about Montreal language etiquette which is currently only available via the Wayback machine. It explained some of the day-to-day etiquette:
So here's politeness tip #1: The answer to "bonjour-hi" is "bonjour" or "hi", but never both. Otherwise you will drive the poor clerk nuts; they want you to choose. :-) It's entirely possible that you may run into some situations where English isn't enough. But for the most part, I see people using English everywhere, and they don't seem to have many problems. In fact, as a student of French, your biggest problem will be finding opportunities to practice: until you reach ~B2, it will be hard to convince people to stick to French. In your case, however, there's an extra wrinkle: You're not a native English speaker. I have definitely gotten the impression that some Montrealers are less than delighted by "allophones" who move to Montreal and who insist on speaking English:
If you ever run into this attitude, I suspect that a modest effort in French will go a long way towards getting on everybody's good side. Even though French speakers in Montreal are endlessly courteous about speaking English, it's good to remember that this is a courtesy, and nobody likes to be imposed on. On the bright side, you may find it easier to get Montrealers to stick to French, because your accent won't give you away as an English speaker. Edited by emk on 25 February 2014 at 5:50pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4416 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 5 of 14 26 February 2014 at 12:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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There are all these stereotypes and myths about how locals react when you attempt their language. If you believe the stories, the Dutch will point blank refuse to engage with you, the Germans will switch to perfect accent-free English the moment you mispronounce a word or misplace a preposition, the French will show contempt even if your French skills are better than their English, the Spanish will talk back to you but at twice the speed and volume, while their friends do the same simultaneously....and so on.
In the real world, of course, it's nothing like that. The vast majority of people are incredibly supportive of your attempts to fit into their society and will happily converse with you. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5754 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 6 of 14 26 February 2014 at 1:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Quebec is the only place in the world I've ever encountered any negativity for not knowing the local language. I once asked in English for some directions at a gas station and the lady working there told me dead seriously "you should speak French in Quebec".
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| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6999 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 7 of 14 26 February 2014 at 3:29am | IP Logged | ||||||||
A job in a gas station isn't one of those competitive ones emk was talking about. Edited by luke on 26 February 2014 at 3:30am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5750 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 8 of 14 26 February 2014 at 4:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I believe it is really important to recognize that there is a considerable difference between Montréal and other parts of the province of Québec in terms of english/french usage. Although I understand language issues are again becoming politicized recently by the politicians, my own experiences with Montreal in the 1990s accords entirely with those of emk. The original poster was asking about Montreal; the answer would be entirely different if he or she had been asking about Trois-Rivières, for example, or even Quebec City. To the original poster: Montreal is a great city, dress warmly if you will wintering there, and if you value your safety never make fun of the local hockey team. Edited by Spanky on 26 February 2014 at 4:40am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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