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Shadowing a novel

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
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Serpent
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 Message 9 of 46
08 March 2014 at 5:04am | IP Logged 
Yeah, I think it's much better to shadow only some parts but at full speed. There's no objective reason to shadow an entire novel.
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lingoleng
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 Message 10 of 46
08 March 2014 at 7:47am | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
There's no objective reason to shadow an entire novel.

If people could stop thinking of shadowing as a means of improving one's pronunciation and instead take it for what it is - a highly valuable tool for the guided acquisition of language - an answer like yours would not be possible.
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Serpent
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 Message 11 of 46
08 March 2014 at 11:54am | IP Logged 
Where did I say it's only about the pronunciation? Of course it isn't. This still doesn't mean that shadowing an entire audiobook is somehow better than shadowing only some parts. Just like reading an entire book aloud, it's a daunting project, and it's much better to know this from the beginning.

Also, quote an objective reason for shadowing an entire novel. Or heck, for reading an entire novel from cover to cover, rather than treating it the way people treat TV and get their watching "done". Developing your patience is useful, but I'm looking for reasons directly related to language learning. I don't see any.
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James29
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 Message 12 of 46
08 March 2014 at 12:23pm | IP Logged 
This discussion is very helpful. Thank you to all of you.

I study by myself and I don't like to spend a lot of money so I am constantly trying to find new things to do. I also have the "problem" that I am not a big fiction reader and there are hardly any audio books in Spanish of the things I like to read.

This year I am focusing on watching TV and reading books in Spanish, but I am somewhat neglecting speaking. It seems logical that shadowing one of the books I hope to read this year might be a way to have words come out of my mouth instead of just go into my ears. I am noticing that my passive vocabulary is growing and my comprehension is really going up (which is exactly what I need), but my active vocabulary seems to be stuck.

The comments about only shadowing part of it are helpful. That makes a lot of sense. I read Atlas Shrugged a few times when I originally tried LR, but I never did the shadow phase. Shadowing a whole book like that just seems like too much. When I was thinking of doing it for LR I was going to shadow every odd page and simply listen to the even pages.

Interesting point about objective reasons for shadowing an entire novel. There are certainly many subjective reasons (I really enjoy the satisfaction of finishing a book or project... especially in Spanish), but I cannot really think of objective reasons. I suppose if you have the resources and you never use them that you are simply wasting them. Why buy/borrow another resource if you still have a perfectly good unfinished one? That is an objective reason, but does not have anything to do with language learning.    

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luke
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 Message 13 of 46
08 March 2014 at 12:27pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
Also, quote an objective reason for shadowing an entire novel. Or heck, for reading an entire novel from cover to cover, rather than treating it the way people treat TV and get their watching "done". Developing your patience is useful, but I'm looking for reasons directly related to language learning. I don't see any.


That's a very liberating and novel point. On the other side, there is something of persistence in language learning. Sometimes we have to train ourselves in that also. Finishing a novel may be one marker on the road.

Edited by luke on 08 March 2014 at 1:03pm

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Serpent
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 Message 14 of 46
08 March 2014 at 1:09pm | IP Logged 
James29 wrote:
I suppose if you have the resources and you never use them that you are simply wasting them. Why buy/borrow another resource if you still have a perfectly good unfinished one? That is an objective reason, but does not have anything to do with language learning.

Yet we don't mind this when we speak about language courses.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack your thread. I don't think you need to shadow 100 or 200 words you already know just to add one or two words to your active vocabulary. When it comes to activating, shadowing is great when you can already write/think but not speak. When you need to activate the common vocab. I think what you need is more about getting out of your comfort zone, choosing to use the more precise/sophisticated equivalents of the words you already know well.

BTW, scriptorium is one more interesting option for you.

And one more idea is "playing" with the new vocabulary like the Secret LR Documents in Polish describe:

New word: Tintin.
Tintin, he, a boy. I like Tintin. Where’s Tintin? Zosia likes Tintin. She likes him. He’s nice. If I were Tintin I’d be ashamed of myself. Do you know where Tintin is? How on earth should I know that? Tintin must be lying under the table.

I will kiss you if you kiss me.

Tintin will kiss you if you kiss him. Will you kiss Tintin if he kisses me? Tintin won’t kiss Captain Haddock if he doesn’t kiss you. Baba Yaga will get angry unless Tintin kisses her.
Oczywiście, zamiast kiss można wstawiać inne czasowniki, aby tylko był sens. Will Tintin kill me if I look at you?


The “Peary” can’t do more than 12 knots.
She can’t do more than 15 knots. (Anglosasi o statkach mówią she.)
Couldn’t the “Peary” do less than 10069 knots?
The “Tintin” used to do more than 1 knot.



You could do scriptorium with individual sentences, then mix and match them like this. Focus on love, awe, pleasure, fun.


Edited by Serpent on 08 March 2014 at 1:11pm

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James29
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 Message 15 of 46
08 March 2014 at 2:11pm | IP Logged 
Well, I definitely need writing practice. I completely ignore writing. I will look more at the scriptorium technique.

You have convinced me that there is probably not a significant benefit of shadowing an entire novel... especially a long one.
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Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

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 Message 16 of 46
08 March 2014 at 2:17pm | IP Logged 
One thing I liked to do at school was to take the list of words I needed to learn and challenge myself to write a text that uses them all. Aspiring writers also do that (n their native language); I think exercises for writers are a good idea at your level. You can post them to lang-8 too.


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