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Professors’ list of Great Books | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Books, Literature & Reading |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4791 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 17 of 40 12 May 2014 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think such lists are dangerous but beneficial as well. It is a nice starting point when you are totally clueless about how to best dive into a new teritory.
I think part of the English prevalence and the minimal popularity of translated literature in the anglophone countries doesn't necessarily mean the other traditions aren't real competition. 1.There is just so much English literature of all the genres and quality that the people (including the professionals) don't need to look elsewhere. It doesn't mean there aren't many awesome and even higher quality books in other languages. 2.The anglophone countries suffer from huge "ego" and superiority feelings and the usual lists are a clear exemple. Yes, they've got plenty to offer but they are wrong not to expect anyone else to be their equal. During various periods of time and areas of literature, there have been other countries taking the lead in many areas, including the literature. And it is happening in some genres now and it may be quite common in future. After all, the Romans hadn't considered other cultures to be their equal and hadn't expected to ever stop being the one culture superior to others. 3.The anglophone countries have the best marketing for their books and other cultural articles. I've recently read quite a lot of French books that would be known worldwide if the marketing and PR of their authors would be just as good as those of the same or less quality authors in the US or UK. This is probably the main reason why a third language country, like the Czech Republic, will see many more books translated from English than from French/German/whatever else per year. So, I think prof Arguelles' lists are among the best that have ever been compiled, because he leaves the common prejudices behind. He doesn't try to fit the list in the top 10,100,1000 or whatever, that helps as well. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4026 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 18 of 40 12 May 2014 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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"2.The anglophone countries suffer from huge "ego" and superiority feelings and the
usual lists are a clear exemple. Yes, they've got plenty to offer but they are wrong not to expect anyone else to be their equal. During various periods of time and areas of literature, there have been other countries taking the lead in many areas, including the literature. And it is happening in some genres now and it may be quite common in future. After all, the Romans hadn't considered other cultures to be their equal and hadn't expected to ever stop being the one culture superior to others. " Wait what? This is just one big "wat" to me. If anything the English tend to be somewhat depreciable of their literary culture and literary hipsterism is one of those massive problems. You're much, much, more likely to find someone here who has read Dante than Milton. I'd argue that the English are much more aware of other cultures dominating literature at different times: I'm aware of only two school systems in great detail, the Greek and the British, and they couldn't be worlds more apart in terms of teaching world history and world literatures. Likewise, anecdotally, none of my friends and colleagues who were educated elsewhere ever exhibit anything like a knowledge of other countries history and literature (I'm entwining the two deliberately here). Going back to this concept of "taking the lead" I'm also pretty sure most Anglos take the modern period as one of decline in their literature too. French is the language associated with great literature (for whatever reason), not English despite it's historical strength. Do you know what annoys me? This reverse snobbism that countries recently or currently successful have to suffer. I'm not English but the constant pop shots the language, its culture, and literature take is really annoying. No they're not brusque and arrogant or ignorant. If anything out of all the countries I've known this is the one that goes most out of the way to understand and learn about others. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5843 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 19 of 40 12 May 2014 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Cavesa, you said it well. I think his list is a bit too anglophile, but that's perhaps just me.
Other countries like France and Germany also have their (biased) lists, but that's natural. I find interesting that in the German list one-third of the books were written before the beginning of the 19th Century. How "classic" is that? I would like to offer this alternative from Norway. It was the result of a survey where they asked 100 writers from 54 countries. The "undisputed" emerge on top (as always), and then it's more equitably distributed. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 20 of 40 12 May 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm surprised anyone thinks there's one best literary tradition in Europe. If we take Western only, then English, French, German, Italian are all strong and it's a matter of personal taste and cultural connections.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 21 of 40 12 May 2014 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | ||
No, this has nothing to do with this forum. Maybe copyright rules in general. Simply listing great works has nothing to do with copyrights, even small quotes fall under fair use. I think the lists were compiled for the purposes of his own teaching, personal goals and for informing aspiring polyglots or anyone who's learning a language in order to read in it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4791 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 22 of 40 12 May 2014 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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I never said the anglophones were the only ones to be biased. :-)
But claiming the UK to be one of the ones that go the most out of their way to get to know others, that is naive in my opinion. I'm basing this opinion both on my personal experience with the British and on the far larger experience of my schoolmates many of which spent longer time studying in the UK. It only makes sense, it is a former Empire. The culture has always been focused on export, not import. Just another exemple of biased approach: Some of the Czech lists are sooo funny. Fortunately, noone here is insane enough to claim the Czech literature to be among the most influential of Europe, even though we've got a few great individuals (such as Čapek). But I didn't know whether to laugh or cry in despair when I found out the new form of high school leaving exams is requiring students to know just as many or more Czech authors or books as the foreign ones. Really, we don't have that many awesome authors and majority of the glorified ones are just the one eyed kings among the blinds. When it comes to Europe, Polish literature isn't without importance and the Russians are somehow Europeans as well, so the list of Western Canon major players is a bit larger. The Nordic countries together could make another important section. I think one of the best issues prof Arguelles adressed is the common lack of knowledge and interest in the other literary traditions. The Middle East, Asia and so on. That's something the whole Euroamerican civilization is guilty of. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5843 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 23 of 40 12 May 2014 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, that's a whole other debate. A few years ago, I read in this forum that Sanskrit has more literature than Greek and Latin put together. And Greek + Latin is really a lot of stuff (more than most people think). 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 24 of 40 12 May 2014 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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I meant Western Europe only, not the Western world in general. Greece is also in Eastern Europe.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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