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LL & Loss of Confidence:How to Persevere? | ||
Tags: Loss of confidence | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Raconteur Diglot Newbie Poland bit.ly/1eiSWnc Joined 3686 days ago 34 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 1 of 27 02 April 2014 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ever since I obtained a decent level of English proficiency as a young teen (over a decade ago), I have been unable to
pick up any additional languages. And certainly this is not due to the lack of attempts to do so, as I have been working on various languages throughout my life. But I have failed every single time. I have been the most committed to Japanese and French (both involving many attempts), while also dabbling with a number of others at various times. I tried many different methods (audio, video, computer, SRS, traditional texts), and settings: individual learning, informal group work, and formal classroom. All of these, whether I invested months or even years, ultimately ended up in failure. The three main culprits I can identify are (1) lack of time, (2) waning motivation, and (3) loss of confidence. All are important, and should be addressed, but I believe the last one has caused me most harm. [The “curse” of being able to rely on English is also its own problem]. I find it very hard to break through the initial language barrier – that magical spot where all of a sudden you ‘sort of get it’ and then instead of seeing detached vocabulary and grammar structures, the bigger picture emerges. I learned English so long ago that I don’t even remember how it happened that I got to that point where things clicked. Again and again, I see people in the classrooms/groups around me reaching that point and taking off … meanwhile I’m stuck. Same happens when I study on my own. Being super busy and stressed out about other things in my life, this loss of confidence eventually translates to loss of motivation, followed by complete termination of studying, and then a period of total stagnation (during which I quickly lose any semblance of the progress I might have made). Subsequently, after 6 months, a year, etc., I really want to learn a damn language… and start again with “Bonjour monsieur, ça va?” This is where I find myself now. But I want to do things differently. I think I need to finally figure out how to do it right. Looking forward to a good discussion on this topic. From general advice on how to persevere when time is limited (I’m often overworked, stressed, and mentally exhausted) to anecdotes about your own experiences, particularly if they are similar to mine. [Feel free to also link to good forum posts that might help me out]. Thanks team! --- --- --- --- Since this is my first post, a few words about me. I have been visiting these forums for years now. I figured, it’s about time I sign up and join the conversation. Thus, although you don’t know me at all, I am familiar with many of you. I’ve been living in a Francophone country for 8 months now. At first I was really driven to learn French, but gave up (once again!) after only a few months of discomfort and embarrassment. It doesn’t help that both professionally and socially I am insulated in an Anglophone environment… but I certainly don’t want this to be an excuse not to finally learn French. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4152 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes  Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 2 of 27 02 April 2014 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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Welcome to the forum. I also hesitated before becoming an active member, but it was a great decision.
(1) lack of time: I can't really help you with that one, except to say that even 10 minutes a day of something is better than nothing. If you allow long periods without studying, you need to revise things from the beginning, and that way you never go beyond “Bonjour monsieur, ça va?”. It has happened to me and I try to avoid it at all costs now. (2) waning motivation: That's a tricky one. Since you live in France, I assume it's easy to find social, cultural and personal motivation. Don't let the natives intimidate you (if they do, I don't know...) (3) loss of confidence: You should not be afraid to make mistakes. I think it is the fear of failing that makes us fail. Have you had any bad experiences trying to speak that made you lose heart? Were they worth it? Edited by renaissancemedi on 02 April 2014 at 2:59pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Raconteur Diglot Newbie Poland bit.ly/1eiSWnc Joined 3686 days ago 34 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 3 of 27 02 April 2014 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Renaissancemedi,
Thanks for welcoming me to the forum! To clarify, I didn’t have any “bad” experiences per se. Certainly, no one has been unpleasant about my lack of ability. Mostly it just gets a bit awkward… When I first got here, I made attempts to place myself in francophone social situations. However, despite intensive studying I couldn’t understand much – not even when someone took the time to speak simply and slowly to me. Usually this put me on the spot (again, awkward) as I couldn’t follow, let alone coherently respond – meanwhile others in my situation could and did. Eventually, people always switched to English for my sake, which is not necessarily the most natural thing for them. I saw this as very rude of me, as either the entire group switches to English despite a preference for French, or they leave me out of the conversation (and often seem very uncomfortable/apologetic about it). Consequently, I mostly gave up on this approach (for now). As for professional situations, it’s even more straightforward. I’m simply not going to “practice French” on someone, when we both know that we can communicate more clearly and quickly in English. Besides, many of my colleagues don’t speak French to begin with. Also, I must add that I’m an extrovert, and my immediate desire for communication (whether social or professional) often trumps my desire for language improvement even when the other side might be game to see me struggle for words (this goes back to the “English curse” I mentioned). Edited by Raconteur on 02 April 2014 at 3:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4152 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 4 of 27 02 April 2014 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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Perhaps you could start with setting a goal like: finish a cartain amount of lessons from your method of choice, rather that focus on speaking goals. You could also write french to this forum (we could all use the practice!) and perhaps join one of the french teams for motivation (monthly challenges). I am also an extrovert and it's a good thing for languages, not feeling shy :)
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3876 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 5 of 27 02 April 2014 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | ||
I believe this is a side effect of modern society and expectations of things should having to be easy. There are a lot of people here who "like" the process of language learning. Let me give another viewpoint. These are the basic facts. 1. Language learning is hard. 2. You will feel stuck for months at some stage. You wont feel an improvement. You wont get cupcakes for sticking with it another day. 3. You might even be slower to learn than other around you, making you feel more stupid. 1+2+3 will go on for months. Power through it. Accept the pain, and power through it. It will "build character". As temporary relief along the way, you can buy comics in French if you enjoy those. Like http://www.amazon.fr/Calvin-Hobbes-Intégrale-Tome-1/dp/2258 069963 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4743 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 6 of 27 02 April 2014 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you have tried multiple times, then its time for some radical measures.
Stress is a learning killer. I had family problems last year. The good news was they had nothing to do with me. The bad news, I could not do anything to make them go away. When things were quiet I could sit down and study and learn. When I was worrying about my parents, I had a very hard time doing anything. In fact that is partly why I had a great first half of the year learning Chinese, but then basically stopped cold the last four months of 2013. The stress over family, my job (I had lost it), and other things just killed my ability to absorb new learning. I barely could keep up French and German, and that was only because I can easily maintain my level in those with reading and listening, since I am far beyond basic fluency on them, approaching advanced fluency. So the first thing is, you must identify the sources of stress, and ELIMINATE it/them. If you really serious about learning a language, you will have to do this. Time: make some!! Put your career on hold for a little. If you have to work all those hours just to make ends meet, then consider some temporary cost-cutting measures from housing to anything, that will give you some more breathing room. I did this, I stopped travelling, or buying myself things, so I could cut my hours from working. I will be the first to admit that not everyone can do it, but anywhere you see you can make more time, do do. And I suspect spending less money and working less will automatically help with the stress issue. Finally, and the easiest one really, is the environment. You are in a francophone environment. I don't know what your job is, but are you REQUIRED to use English there? If not, don't use it! I'm not expecting you to switch 100% immediately, specially if your job involves a highly technical field, but pick your battles. Anywhere that you don't need English, try to at least study some ready made phrases. It is not fun or easy at first to get through that way-stage, but at least it does not take long at all to get through it (compared to the Walk to the Moon that is basic to advanced fluency!). And there is NO excuse in your environment to be outside of work in an Anglophone bubble. None, simple as that. Such an outcome is a result of your lack of commitment and your friends lack of helpfulness. The answer here is simple: tell your friends you need their help in reaching this goal, and that they cease all English communication with you. If you think you can't cope, then stop going out with friends and use the time to study. Learn the 1000 most frequent words, due tons of listening to radio, television, read a lot. Talk to yourself in French. In no time, you can go back out in the world with enough French to survive, and then you tell all your buddies you will only use French with them. Finally, sleep a minimum of 6-8 hours, it does wonders, and eat a good breakfast with nuts, egg, and vitamin B. You need all the radical measures above if you want to progress FAST enough to avoid the motivation lapse, which is very difficult to cure. I truly believe you need to rip through this stage before that problem sets in. But bottom line "I’m often overworked, stressed, and mentally exhausted", with no time, is not a winning formula to learn a language. You want to do things differently, great! Remember Einstein: “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Raconteur Diglot Newbie Poland bit.ly/1eiSWnc Joined 3686 days ago 34 posts - 47 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 7 of 27 02 April 2014 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks for the perspective Gemuse. Yes, I am aware that some enjoy language learning in and of itself (definitely, many on this here forum do). I really do not, but I wish I did. And perhaps this can change, if I find a method (or methods) that work better for me. I am sure that once I reach the threshold of reading, watching, listening, and communicating (even on a primary school level) I will be fine. I love doing those things, and I’m dying to access stuff, which for now I do not understand. But the beginning, getting to that point where things “click” is not fun for me. It’s not only tough… it seems downright impossible. With Japanese I pushed, and pushed for years without gaining an ability to read a simple book or watch a film or TV show without subtitles. It was super discouraging - eventually I ran out of steam. And when I could no longer keep up in classes, failed exams, kept embarrassing myself in front of the teacher and peers, I simply threw in the towel. I regret not "powering through it" ... but at the time I simply couldn't take it anymore. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3876 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 8 of 27 02 April 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||
I'm like you, so not enjoying the process of getting to the tipping point. And I am also insulated in an English environment. It's perfectly ok to having had given up the learning process before, what matters is can you continue again? You only need to succeed ONCE at learning your target language. Japanese is harder than French. And you were at French only for a few months. If you really want to learn French, pick up again, focus on just one alien language (French) and attack it again. Fortunately French has many many excellent books for self learning, translated comic books, translated adult fiction etc. Make a learning log here, we can give you encouragement. And you can vent. It'll make the process easier (thats my hope). http://www.itchyfeetcomic.com/2013/05/four-twenties-and-thir teen.html Edited by Gemuse on 02 April 2014 at 5:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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