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I cringe at the accent | ||
Tags: Loss of confidence | Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| lamanna Newbie Australia Joined 6082 days ago 27 posts - 31 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 1 of 8 01 May 2014 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hi all,
I'm one of those on again off again students of the Italian language. My main motivation for learning Italian is my ancestry but I end up hitting the same road blocks all the time. The main one is I don't find it very useful other than talking to my relatives (probably because I can in English as they understand and speak it perfectly well). My interest is German but I guilt myself into learning Italian for the above reason... anyway, that's not my question to you all. The other major road block I hit is when I speak it out loud (only ever to myself). I've been trying to learn it for quite a while now but as I take such long breaks between I've never really advanced past the beginner stage. Even then though, there's some things I'm confident saying but never do in front of native speakers. The native speakers all happen to be relatives and I think that's the problem. I hear them speak it and it sounds perfect, when I speak I just sound (to me)... moronic. I feel the same way when I hear other Italian learners speak it as well though. I just can't listen to it, it sounds so cheesy I feel uncomfortable and end up doing anything to make it stop! It's nothing personal! I don't have this problem with German, I guess because I've never been exposed to many natives. I have no problem speaking it (or at least attempting to hehe) and have no problems listening to a non-native. Has this stifled anyone else's learning? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4474 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 2 of 8 01 May 2014 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Can't say I have. But then I started with French where it's a lot easier to get online help from Moroccans and Algerians than actual French people.
Anyway, by "other Italian learners" do you really just mean other native English Italian learners? I'm pretty sure that native Spanish or Catalan speakers would sound at least a bit less goofy when they speak Italian. :-) English is kind of a crappy place to start at in terms of learning a second language. There's nothing that really transfers that fluidly in terms of phonology, honestly. I guess other Germanic ones would be the closest but even that road has the big old pothole of our silly R sound that so many people have problems with getting rid of. Edited by tastyonions on 01 May 2014 at 8:23pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| holly heels Groupie United States Joined 3695 days ago 47 posts - 107 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 3 of 8 01 May 2014 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Short of an accent-reduction coach, I have found that one of the best ways to get rid of my accent is to listen to the everyday speech of native speakers as much as possible, which I am doing through Taiwanese media about 4 hours a day.
I believe that my accent is slowly diminishing, but maybe that is wishful thinking. My voice is too unpredictable and too unreliable. I remember the first time I found the courage to speak Mandarin with a native, and how hurt I was when she commented about my accent. It was a blow to my confidence, but I recovered. So far no one has complained that my accent is a barrier to communication. I have now watched about 100 Mandarin game shows, and many of the guests are non-native speakers, but only 2 non-Asians stand out as having near native accents. One is from the UK, the other is from Poland, and it is worth noting that they both have lived in-country for a number of years, and at least one has a native spouse. I will always be overly self-conscious of my accent, but hopefully it will not be as big of an issue for others as it is for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| chokofingrz Pentaglot Senior Member England Joined 4998 days ago 241 posts - 430 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Japanese, Catalan, Luxembourgish | Message 4 of 8 01 May 2014 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I would go to a class and start speaking it regularly with other learners who sound equally moronic. You might be surprised at how quickly you make progress. If they all speak it badly, make it your goal to be the best in the class and show them up!
Alternative solution: get Michel Thomas Italian or similar. I started with that and recommend it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5071 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 5 of 8 01 May 2014 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Heritage learners are a whole other kettle of fish. There are all kinds of non-language related issues under the surface. They may have expectations, or at least perceived expectations to meet. Despite the heritage, they may not actually want to learn the language precisely because of the context in which they relate to the language. As a non-heritage learner of other languages, I don't worry about being mistaken for a native speaker and I'm ok with that, as I'm sure are the native speakers as well.
I think that may be the case here. The OP seems to be learning Italian out of "obligation" and not for a deep passion for the language and the culture it represents outside of the local Australian diaspora community. In fact, being far away from Italy in a diaspora culture may be making it difficult to see the language outside of that context. The benefits of another language have value to me in many ways. Italian can be as useful as the OP wants it to be outside of communicating with family and relatives. We non-heritage learners see the language as bringing with it a whole new world. The OP probably just sees family, relatives and neighbors (who can also speak English) who want the OP to speak Italian because the OP is of Italian descent, when "real" Australian life is happening all around them in English. One of the biggest mistakes that beginning-learners can make is comparing themselves to native speakers. Native speakers have had a lifetime of exposure to and experience with the language- of course they're good! The irony is that most people will be thrilled to hear their language spoken by a non-native speaker at a high level, especially if that person, like me, didn't have to learn it. I imagine that if I spoke Italian at a high level as a non-Italian native-English speaker and if I were to meet the OP's family and speak it with them, they would probably shower me with compliments- regardless of my obvious anglo accent and mistakes. They will probably be ok with the same coming from a next generation descendant living in a foreign land who was born into a life in English. If the OP can't find a passion (or reason outside of obligation because of heritage) for learning the language it will probably be best to lay it aside and do something else. Life is short. Sure, the family and extended family will be disappointed, but halfhearted learning and just "going through the motions" of learning it will only result in not learning Italian and disappointing the OP and those folks anyway. Successfully learning another language to a high level first may have the effect of actually increasing the desire to come back to Italian by showing the OP the many benefits of having a second language and that imperfection is ok. Edited by iguanamon on 01 May 2014 at 10:35pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6359 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 6 of 8 03 May 2014 at 5:08am | IP Logged | ||||||||
No offense, but I think this is some pretty bad advice. There's no such thing as "wrong" motivation. To the OP: This is not an unusual problem. I recommend you start speaking to native skype partners on a regular basis. There is nothing better for curing conversation problems than doing lots of conversation. I suggest skype, because the remoteness of your partner might allow you to be more comfortable. In fact, you might want to do it without the camera for a while. Native partners are best, because you want to emulate their pronunciation. Good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6406 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 7 of 8 03 May 2014 at 5:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The best solution depends on the person and their goals, but I agree that speaking to people who aren't your family members should help. You don't necessarily need frequent/long sessions.
More thoughts/ideas: -speak with people from a different region of Italy. they'll speak standard Italian but you'll still notice some differences -listening should help too. again, get exposed to a variety of accents -sing in Italian! -motivation can't be wrong, but it can be insufficient or not strong enough 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5071 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 8 of 8 03 May 2014 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
No offense taken, leosmith. When the OP wrote "My interest is learning German but I guilt myself into learning Italian...". That's why I gave the less than positive and encouraging advice I did. Perhaps I read too much into that sentence. If there hadn't been that one sentence, my advice would have been more encouraging and practical along the lines of the other posters in this thread. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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