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Languages to cover 50%, 90% of all humans | ||
Tags: Language Map/Atlas | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Richard Burton Newbie Spain Joined 4125 days ago 34 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: Ancient Greek* | Message 17 of 24 27 June 2014 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I read and liked a thread here time ago on the same idea, the poster called it "omniglotism", and someone reaching that ideal "omniglot". later there was another one with a similar orientation.
Personally I find it an interesting and valid concept, actually more than other notions that stuck like "hyperpolyglot". The idea was that seems humanly possible to learn the most outstanding languages of the planet to the point that you theoretically could speak virtually to anyone (obviously there will always be some earthlings left out). The fact that users of languages as second and foreign language exist must be taken into account obviously, and by means of that your percentages are easily reached, probably surpassed even. The way things are evolving make the issue even more conceivable: I am convinced numbers of speakers of outstanding languages are bigger than reported by linguists, they are absorving speakers from minority languages at quicker pace than reported, and they tend to gain users as second or foreign language at "alarming" rates. The eight suggested by Solfrid above are valid, personally I would suggest a little extended 12, due to a silly numerological reason :) and a longish reasoning behind it I will save you ... and they are 6 european: English, German, Spanish, French, Portuguese and Russian and 6 "oriental": Arabic, Persian, Hindi, Indonesian, MChinese, Japanese I know some people would doubt Persian or some other, others would like Turkish and Bengali added. I dont think Swahili is one of these kind of mammoth languages, but the other thread poster thought otherwise. in years to come few people will remain who does not speak one of these either as a native, second or foreign language... therefore an "omniglot" or "panglot" as you say would be conceivable it is interesting to note that no such an omniglot appears to exist so far, correct? many of the greatest guys around seem to have "wasted" :) energies in "minor" languages; maybe Stuart Jay Raj or Arguelles...? 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4702 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 18 of 24 27 June 2014 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Just 1: the language of love. Or mathematics. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| AlexTG Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 4431 days ago 178 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 19 of 24 27 June 2014 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If we're looking towards the future we need to eliminate Japanese, its population is set to
plummet over the next half century. I think Russian has a similar problem. French on the other hand should grow significantly thanks to high birth rates in francophone Africa. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Richard Burton Newbie Spain Joined 4125 days ago 34 posts - 64 votes Speaks: Ancient Greek* | Message 20 of 24 27 June 2014 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I agree, Alex, I take your point, but I would not pay much attention to demographics, first because goes away in time to the 2050 or so then becomes rather irrelevant for our times; second and more importantly, the falling birth rates are now almost universal. The Georgia Stones figure doesn't look so crazy now. I not only agree to the line of thinking of "Demographic Winter" and others, I think they ignore factors which make things even worse, I believe researchers that point to half girls now 20 and their descendants infertile, then you have social engineering and what not. If the small áreas with natural growth remaining favor French, that makes French more surely in the list in spite of feelings some years ago of a decline of French. Further, the universal falling birthrates will be particularly devastating with endangered and minority languages. So overall I would say demographics support our lists. On the witchhunting profound sharp hint lets put it this way: I never ever cared about the emperor's ass. Many years ago I wondered about the phenomenon of the idiots/cowards saying how beautiful the emperor's clothes, so I researched their behaviour, but I moved quick to the real topic which is the identity and purpose of the deceivers. It turned out to be several layers of deception. Uncovered everything, was very happy and proud and moved on. It is years now that I dont care at all about the topic, and my ways of thinking and interests have evolved and changed beyond recognition. It is the thought pólice chasing ghosts! I hate the clothes! I am a clothist. I am trying to find a list of Sutart Jay's languages, I still guess is the only real extant omniglot. Edited by Richard Burton on 27 June 2014 at 5:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mad Max Tetraglot Groupie Spain Joined 4844 days ago 79 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Spanish*, French, English, Russian Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 21 of 24 29 June 2014 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If you want to add people that have a basic knowledge of the language, you only need
Mandarin Chinese, English and Spanish to cover 50% of the World population. China, Taiwan and Singapore have a population of 1375 million people. All of them study Mandarin Chinese as first or second language. You should add people around the world that speak or study the language. So, 1425 million people speak at least a basic Mandarin Chinese. English is spoken by only 400 million as mother tongue. You should add one billion as second language speakers around the World. Finally, Spanish is spoken by 550 million people according to a Instituto Cervantes report. Portuguese speakers are some 250 million people. You can go to Brazil or Portugal speaking Spanish and they understand it. In Italy is a little more difficult, but Italian people understand also a basic Spanish. So, you can understand 880 million people in different degrees of understanding. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 3825 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 22 of 24 29 June 2014 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The problem with Mandarin is that people will think it is too hard even though it is not hard at all,
that and the fact Japanese is learned far too much. Otherwise it would easily become a popular language for cultural and business reasons, and I would enjoy a future with it. But no. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4458 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 23 of 24 30 June 2014 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's surely a problem with (some) people and not a problem with Mandarin.
What's the problem with the popularity of Japanese with foreign learners? Does it matter whether they're learning it just so they can enjoy anime/manga or for business reasons? From my point of view "lots of learners" == "plenty of didactic material" so I don't see a problem at all.
Presumably you mean Mandarin here? Are you saying you wouldn't learn Mandarin just because Japanese is more popular? Or that the 9apparent) lack of popularity of Mandarin (whatever the cause might be) is enough to put you off? From the point of view of this thread, Mandarin gets you maybe a billion people, so writing it off seems to be against the spirit of becoming an "omniglot". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Stolan Senior Member United States Joined 3825 days ago 274 posts - 368 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Thai, Lowland Scots Studies: Arabic (classical), Cantonese | Message 24 of 24 07 July 2014 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I have a passive understanding of Mandarin due to learning it in Elementary and Middle School, but I currently study Cantonese. I may have phrased my first statement wrongly, yes it is a problem from learners. The trend in some countries like Australia is that Mandarin is learned far more than Japanese, but it may be the other way around in places like South America and Europe where preconceptions about Chinese as a language and its made up difficulty are stronger, unlike the USA or Australia where monolinguals tend to be willing to jump into a language without beforehand or any linguistic knowledge, hence more Chinese learners, and far less give up since they don't let made up difficulty get to their heads because they lack the European view on linguistics which narrows views, their lack of knowledge on language at all actually helps in this case. On the other hand, I have a fair amount of stories of giving up from people elsewhere, which is ironic considering Mandarin is the least conservative dialect, and if it weren't for the 4 tones, it would have phonology simpler than Spanish. Mandarin won't be a popular language then unless enough people from more than one part of the world give it a go. And the popularity of Japanese and how it aligns so well with the European notion of a "language" will only drive people further from Chinese. Edited by Stolan on 08 July 2014 at 5:38am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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