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How to pronounce loan words | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| nicozerpa Triglot Senior Member Argentina Joined 4119 days ago 182 posts - 315 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, Portuguese, English Studies: Italian, German | Message 17 of 39 21 June 2014 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
In the particular case of English names or loan words in Spanish, I'd recommend that you use the local pronunciation. The problem is that English has many vowel sounds that don't exist in Spanish, and natives' ears are not used to them. If the person you're talking to can't speak English, he or she won't be able understand you at all. A few years ago, when my listening comprehension in English was really bad, I met an American guy. Although we spoke in Spanish, I never understood his name nor the place he came from :P. That's what I understood when he introduced himself :) "Hola, mi nombre es 1u312378nwyqoe y vengo de c8fn3ws 123dxnqu, Estados Unidos" However, I think it wouldn't sound pretentious if you decided to continue using the proper pronunciation, it's your native language after all. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4849 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 18 of 39 21 June 2014 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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In Russian nothing is pronounced in the original way and it would be strange to hear.
In English the problem is that foreign words are usually written in the original ortography (without diacritics) or in some transliteration. Native English speakers pronounce the words in different ways because they don't know how to pronounce them. I heard a BBC journalist pronouncing the names of Ukrainian places in the Russian way. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 3892 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 19 of 39 22 June 2014 at 12:06am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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If there's a L2 way of saying the word/name in question, I'd go with that no matter how silly it sounds or feels, especially if a native L2 speaker cannot be assumed to be fluent in the language the word/name comes from.
That is to say: want to buy a butternut squash in France? Mangle "butternut", no matter how silly you feel — it's a matter of being understood. Want to talk about something English in Scandinavia? Feel free to say the word in English. If you don't want to sound terribly pretentious, stay away from loan words that are incredibly common and/or have already morphed in the language. E.g. in a Swedish conversation, say "hamburgare" instead of switching to English to say "hamburger", and don't ask for a "Coca Cola" in English either even if the Swedish pronunciation actually sounds more pretentious.
The latter is not really a name change. "da Vinci" is not any type of name, it simply means "from Vinci", as does "de Vinci". The French, historically speaking, did love to adapt names though, making it incredibly difficult at times to read Classical Archaeology in French. But the English are, historically speaking, no better. Horace, Mark Anthony, Plato, Herod, Homer…
Except for… when it does? Anglicising names isn't, from what I gather, that terribly uncommon a practice amongst immigrants in North America, and I've known a Mahuddin in Europe who operated his business under the name Martin. In those cases it's obviously each person making a choice for themselves, but that isn't always the case. I've known Zaras (Arabic) and Sarahs (English) who were called Sara (Swedish) for 12 years of schooling, and my English neighbour calls all our French acquaintances by their Anglicised names. Yann and Jean are John, François is Francis, etc. Out of respect some people avoid "translating" names, but that's not always the case. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6390 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 20 of 39 22 June 2014 at 12:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
True but I think this should also make the comprehension easier? It's not like I'm using a sound they've never heard. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4083 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 21 of 39 22 June 2014 at 12:23am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I believe that pronouncing it in the manner whence it is originated is often best. If
an example existed, it would be my own forename, Nicolás. Since I live in an Anglophone country, almost no one pronounces it as it should in Spanish, but rather pronounce it like the English "Nicholas" (and even spell it that way, which is extremely annoying). But it depends on how the speaker environment reacts with regards to the issue. I have had Dutch call (and spell) my name as "Nikolaas", French people pronounce my name without the final "s", even Russians calling me "Nicolai" or something, but I often do not take time to explain why my name should be pronounced with a Spanish pronunciation. If the speaker group environment tend to prefer the original pronunciation, I believe that that should be preferred. I pronounce Spain city names with Spanish pronunciation, Portugual city names with Portuguese city names, I put the stress on the last syllable of "Amsterdam", "Breda", "Rotterdam", etc., even though most Anglophones have no clue about these rules, but it simply seems more natural, especially if a native speaker is present. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| hjordis Senior Member United States snapshotsoftheworld. Joined 4979 days ago 209 posts - 264 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 22 of 39 22 June 2014 at 2:34am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
another good point: I had a teacher called Snow White, because that's (apparently) what her name translated to when her family immigrated. Names are probably one of those 'whatever the person in question prefers' things, at least if you know what they prefer. @Serpent- yeah, I just meant if you were expecting them to pronounce it your way, which I don't think you are. For yourself the main issue is just going to be comprehensibility. There's always the risk of sounding pretentious, but it's not really something I'd worry about too much, personally. And as far as comprehensibility, English is a pretty forgiving language, what with so many different native dialects plus a bunch of non-native speakers, and these days with the internet and even tv most people will be familiar with at least a few varieties other than their own. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3649 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 23 of 39 22 June 2014 at 11:33am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Yes, usually if there is a French equivalent, the name will be changed (So, Peter becomes Pierre, John becomes Jean, and so on). I have had friends living with host families who have been asked by the host family if they can call them something different. This mostly applies to Asians I have known. However, I don't know how prevalent this is - everyone I've come across personally has made an effort to pronounce names as they are given, even in cases where the name is quite different.
This happens in Pratchett books in French too. Most of the characters have bizarre names made up of normal English words, and these are translated. For example, Granny Weatherwax becomes Mémé Ciredutemps EDIT:(Adding things)
Yes, I know, that's why I said it remains somewhat intact: it's just slightly changed to make it more French. It is changed from my (English speaking) point of view, as we don't say 'Leonardo from Vinci' but it's neither a major nor a noticeable change and it keeps the meaning clear - as you can see I forget that da Vinci wasn't originally a surname because the 'from' isn't translated. Yes, I think it's kind of silly. I understand the reason behind name changes, but if I were writing the history books, I'd rather make an effort to be truer to the original name. Edited by Elenia on 22 June 2014 at 11:51am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4458 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 24 of 39 23 June 2014 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
In your case you had heard the Spanish rendition, so you could have used it. More interesting, to my mind at least, is when you want to mention Shakespeare in Spanish and you've never heard it said (in Spanish) before. Or perhaps you want to mention Google or Facebook orLinkedIn. Or where you were born or live now (assuming that London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow doesn't cover them). What do you do then? 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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