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Sometimes I just can’t translate a thing | ||
Tags: Listening | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5056 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 9 of 14 27 June 2014 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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I will keep giving the same advice. For adults who have yet to learn their first second language to a high level, it has been my observation and experience that it is best to concentrate on one and get that language to that high level before adding others into the mix. The advantages of doing this are huge.
Frustration enters because a learner has put a lot of effort into a language, wants that high level of effortless listening, and believes that the effort should be sufficient, but it takes a lot more time and effort to get good at listening than one may think. With Portuguese, I spoke Spanish first and had been listening to Brazilian music for years before I started to learn the language in earnest. I began to listen to one of the most dry and boring newscasts out there- the NHK World Portuguese 15 minute newscast- with an exact transcript. After two to three months of following along with the transcript, I was able to wean myself off of it. That and daily exposure to the language in a TV series, radio programs and speaking to people has got me to the point where listening is effortless. If I were to start to train listening in a new language, I would first want audio with a transcript. I would want that audio to either be something I am familiar with (the Bible, an audio book, the news) or easy video with subtitles. (For Haitian Creole, I had a modern, 1996 translation, of the Bible with excellent audio. There is news available, but no transcript. For Ladino, I don't need a transcript thanks to Spanish and Portuguese knowledge- that's an advantage I have by already having a language or two "under my belt"). I would also want enough audio so I could listen regularly for at least 15 minutes to half an hour a day, every day. Video with subtitles (cartoon, nature documentaries, for example) can provide many visual clues to make the audio more comprehensible. So, even though I have described that NHK newscast as "dry and boring", I could deal with it because it was only 15 minutes long and the transcript helped me to figure things out. So, to me, despite having little to no interest in the dollar to yen rates, Japanese sumo scandals, Japanese defense policy or energy shortages, it helped me to train my listening. If you want to get good at listening you have to work at it, a lot, on a daily basis in order to generate critical mass. That may mean you won't have time for the other languages until you get it down, IF, IF you want to have an effortless level of listening in French. If that's not your desire, then do the best you can anyway, progress may be significantly slower and perhaps less satisfying. Having enough of a "base" in a language means having to rely less on one's native language for comprehension. One way to avoid translating is to "not translate". The aim is to understand without translating. Google image searches for words can help. That base in a language I'm talking about helps with monolingual dictionaries. Linguee helps with seeing words and phrases in context. The thing to avoid to help with becoming translation independent is not to have word to word concordance become the norm, at least with me. Edited by iguanamon on 27 June 2014 at 5:38pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4743 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 10 of 14 29 June 2014 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | ||
Totally normal. It means you (or your mind) is tired that day. How many times have we been told, or told others (all speaking our native languages) "are you listening to me?", and the other person sends back a blank face and has no idea what you have just been saying. "Oh I'm so tired today, I can barely follow what you were saying". Even in our mother tongue, listening comprehension is a taxing activity. Imagine in a language you are LEARNING, and where you have no where to hold on to in a raging ocean of thousands of new words, weirdly constructed phrase patterns, and alien sounds. Give yourself a break, you are asking a monumental task for your brain to accomplish. But with discipline and persistence, the day will come when you realize this no longer happens. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4703 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 11 of 14 30 June 2014 at 11:47am | IP Logged | ||
You've gotten a lot of good advice. My advice would be similar to Iguanamon's: listen with a transcript. But I prefer listening first a few times: the first time I'm just trying to figure out what's going on, then on successive listening it begins to make more and more sense. Then I read the transcript and then listen while reading. If you're listening to something interesting, then it's not as hard as it sounds. The only thing I can add is that you're just starting out. A few months is just the beginning. That still happens to me after a few years. Learning a language is a long-term process. Succeeding isn't about not having those depressing experiences. Succeeding is about keeping going because of them. Edited by Jeffers on 30 June 2014 at 11:49am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Tyrion101 Senior Member United States Joined 3707 days ago 153 posts - 174 votes Speaks: French | Message 12 of 14 07 July 2014 at 4:33am | IP Logged | ||
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Are there things out there with slower speaking speed than a radio normally is(but are really good real world examples of languages in use)? I've found that most of the time I can understand a spoken conversation on the radio when they aren't being really excited and speaking at blazing speeds.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4703 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 13 of 14 07 July 2014 at 8:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Unfortunately, Rfi's Journal en français facile is still spoken at a pretty fast pace. The only audio I've found which is fairly slow but still interesting are some of the readers with Cd I've bought.
Enquete Capitale is one which has a very good story, even though it is supposed to be A1. The language feels quite natural, in comparison to more advanced books I've read, but the audio is spoken clearly and a bit slowly, but with feeling. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4622 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 14 of 14 07 July 2014 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think this whole "not translating" thing only comes when you are at a pretty advanced
stage, and when it does, it will happen automatically. You'll hear a whole chunk of audio or live speaking, and suddenly realise you understood it without effort, or maybe even you'll have one of those nirvana moments when you forgot you weren't listening to your own language. But I don't tihnk it can be forced, so the advice to early learners "not to translate", is not, in my humble opinion, as useful as it sounds. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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