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Research: months of no exposure | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4625 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 1 of 15 25 July 2014 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I posted this link in another thread, but it probably deserves its own thread:
link to paper "Second Language Processing Shows Increased Native-Like Neural Responses after Months of No Exposure" Excerpt from the abstract:
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| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5753 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 2 of 15 25 July 2014 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
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This is very welcome news montmorency, muchas merci (or is that gracias beaucoup? - so hard to keep straight).
Whereas previously I was pretty sure I was just lazy and lacked commitment, it turns out I was slyly just facilitating "an increase in native-like neural processing of syntax" for French and Spanish by ignoring both for months and months. I am feeling decidedly better about myself already! 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4814 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 3 of 15 25 July 2014 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
To quote a former tennisman. You can't be serious. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5396 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 4 of 15 25 July 2014 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
I would find it depressing to have learned a language (they invented Brocanto2 just for the experiment) to high proficiency (!!!) and nobody but some test buddies can speak it. Just a lot of rubbish to crowd your memory! Edited by Cabaire on 25 July 2014 at 11:21pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5753 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 5 of 15 26 July 2014 at 12:07am | IP Logged | |||||
That does sound depressing! But on further investigation, even more depressing may be Brocanto2 itself. I understand it is a modification of Brocanto, the chief improvement being that Brocanto2 reduces Brocanto's lexicon from 14 items down to only 13 words (4 of which are words for abstract symbols, although maddeningly, even the symbols have grammatical gender). The language is described around page 130 of the attached version of the paper paginated version of paper (edit: actually this appears to be a different paper than the one circulated in the first post) Even if the test bunnies had other fluent speakers to converse with, they would pretty much be restricted to operating in a bleak, emotionless empty existence, devoid of art, compassion or grand thoughts. In other words, very similar to my own sorry existence; and since, to be perfectly honest, 13 seems to be the upper limit of vocabulary I can comfortably manage before losing interest and momentum with language study, it sounds like the perfect language for me! I've just added it to the list.... Edited by Spanky on 26 July 2014 at 7:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5396 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 6 of 15 26 July 2014 at 12:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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13 words!?! Toki pona now seems like a garrulous and verbose language full of fustian expressions in comparison (I hope nobody tells jan Soja this). I fear we will have to wait a long time for the first "Harry Potter" translation to Brocanto. Edited by Cabaire on 26 July 2014 at 12:31am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4241 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 7 of 15 26 July 2014 at 3:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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Personally, I'd never leave a language for more than 6 months unless I have another that I am learning. I
started French a year ago. After about a month into French I decided to brush up my Mandarin. And then 8 months later after watching hundreds of hours of Chinese TV programs, I've decided to go back to French. Although I may be out of the country, I'd never let my mind go on vacation. Nowadays with portable devices being so common I don't need to let 1 language go completely. On any given night when I'm not learning French I'd be listing to a Mandarin radio program. A lot of my learning materials has video & audio as well as subtitles / captions. I can make copies on my portable sound device and take it along when I'm doing exercise or travelling somewhere on a bus or plane. Even when I'm overseas, I can listen to a French program using somebody's Internet WiFi connection. People who rely on phrase books may put them back on the shelf and not look at them for months. But someone like myself who watches TV shows online more than a regular TV, I'm as likely to be tuned to "America's Got Talent", "Britain's Got Talent" as the Chinese version 中国达人秀. Although my focus now is French, close to my bedtime when I'm tired I would watch a Chinese program like "Beijing New Discoveries" 北京新发现. The show is about the latest tech trends from the newest iPhones, shopping online to paying your parking fees with your phone. I'm picking up new words & phrases all the time through TV programs and learning isn't boring. What I'm finding about language learning is like playing a piano. The first 6 months to 1 year is the most crucial especially when you haven't picked up enough vocabulary to carry on a basic conversation. If you get interrupted for any reason, restarting from the basics would discourage you from continuing because you seemed to be not making any progress. Even when I'm busy, I'd find at least half-an-hour in between when I'm travelling on public transport to listen to language materials on my portable audio device. You can slow down after your learning gets to the level close to a native speaker. Don't forget, the study was conducted with individuals who had taken an intensive immersion program for 6 months before taking a break. If you are still trying to master the basic greetings like "Hello, how are you"? "Bonjour, comment avez-vous"? "你好吗“? taking time off would not be a good idea. You need to get to the point where your brain can "think" in a language at a high level. Edited by shk00design on 26 July 2014 at 3:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4746 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 8 of 15 26 July 2014 at 4:41am | IP Logged | |||||
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I apologize for my laziness (my excuse: I'm working on Chinese characters!), so I did not read the link, I will at some later point. I just wanted to comment.
So is the gravamen of the study the fact that it seems you can improve your fluency substantially (and better) by studying a language for a time (and I mean really study, i.e. immersion), then not studying for a few months, and then hitting it hard again? (because by definition, for "no exposure" period to prove effective, at some point one MUST return to the L2, otherwise no exposure turns to "lost exposure"). I'm interested in this for two reasons. First, I must admit in my years of study of German and French, I did notice that after studying the language for 6-8 weeks, and then taking a week or two off, when I returned to it things not only came back rather quickly, but I had the distinct feeling that I could "manipulate" the language better AFTER that break (and at a new "higher" level). Not only that, but things that did not click before in grammar or vocabulary suddenly "clicked" because I saw them in a new way, or something obvious manifested itself, even though I had done no research or exercises to improve my understanding whatever the problem issue was. I would attribute the effects above to mostly rest and having a refreshed brain, and then also a little to a placebo of "going back" to a language and everything being much easier than the time before (because the time before was the first time I had learned it!). But who knows. Now, for my second reason. I have been studying Chinese hard for the last three months, mainly review of things I have already studied plus learning 2000 characters so I can read Chinese. IN this time I have done almost no listening of French, German, or Portuguese, very little reading, and only spoken the languages two or three times for any period longer than 30 minutes. My first chance of speaking a month into my "sabbatical", I was shocked at how fluent I was. I saw no decline in my abilities. The second time speaking this languages a month later, I did notice some erosion, but the problem is I think the sample was tainted as the events where I used the languages happened when I was on 72 hours without any sleep. So I was mumbling incoherent even in English. My third time is coming up soon and I'm a bit nervous. I have no doubts I will be able to converse fairly well, but I think my accent is now definitely worse because of lack of auditive stimulus, or oral practice. Also, when I think in French and German I do notice now that things don't come up as easily, and that things I want to say and could say effortlessly in the spring now are harder to articulate, so I may sound more hesitant or frustrated when I speak. My plan is to continue with this "no exposure" (and spend all my time on Chinese), until October. Then I will hit my L2-3-4 language HARD (one week each of listening all day, reading mountains of pages, doing a revision on pronunciation and practice with dialogues in the first week, a sort of "silent period", and then doing another week of written exercises and going out to speak as much as I can, "output"). I'm quite curious to see how much deterioration I will have by October, and how fast it all comes back, and if then I find it "easier" than when I stopped being active with the languages. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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