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Film History Studies TAC15 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 17 of 51 15 September 2014 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
I've thought about several different ways of merging them, but there's also 4 different audio streams for each language as well, and so I thought it would be simplest to leave it to leave it as 1 language per card all mixed together within the same anki deck.
Indeed, there are quite a few, one the most famous being the Spanish language version of the 1930s dracula, because it arguably improves some aspects of the Engliash language film, though unfortunately you lose Bela Lugosi playing Dracula. Peter Lorre also gave his first English language performance in the English version of M. I found this wikipedia article listing a whole bunch of these, though it seems to be only stuff produced by American studios. But I've had very little luck tracking any of these down. The main problem being that even they still survive in some film archive there, there's no way they'd digitally scan them all and release them together in a single DVD set, it's hard enough just finding more than 2-3 language tracks on DVDs. At the moment it seems like you might be lucky to get 1 alternate version thrown into the special features if there's some historical significance to its existence. The version with apparently the most versions produced seems to be Paramount on Parade which the article lists has having the following alternate versions... Galas de la Paramount 1930 Spanish version Paramount en parade 1930 French version Paramount auf Parade 1930 German version Paramount sulla parata 1930 Italian version Paramount on Parade 1931 Swedish version Paramount op parade 1930 Dutch Version Parada Paramount 1930 Romanian Version Paramount on Parade 1930 Japanese version Paramount on Parade 1930 Czech version Paramount on Parade 1930 Hungarian version Paramount on Parade 1930 Serbian version Parada Paramountu 1930 Polish version Edited by YnEoS on 15 September 2014 at 10:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 18 of 51 22 September 2014 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
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So, recently I've been re-watching a lot of Professor Arguelles's videos on youtube. I watched most of these long ago when I first started learning languages and they've had a big influence on my learning style. Watching them again with over a year of language learning experience behind me, they seem quite different from when I first saw them and certain details stand out more than they did before.
I've decided to take a slightly different approach to my French studies and re-incorporate a bit of course work into my study routine. Even though I'm at a level where I can enjoyably learn from native materials, I'm not completely convinced that it's the most efficient route to basic proficiency. I can generally get quite a bit of narrative out of native french materials, but a lot of times I'm just getting the gist, and my knowledge doesn't seem concrete enough to efficiently guess new words unless they reappear many times in a short time span. Even though I'm returning to some course work, I'm not going to use any translations and I'm going to be working through much bigger blocks of material than a beginner would. The first material I'm going to use is the old 1950s Linguaphone course, when I initially looked at these I too quickly dismissed them as being similar to assimil but with worse formatting. I've looked at them more closely recently as I'll be needing to use them for some of my other languages, and realize they're incredibly well built courses, and the images in each lesson work really help for learning new vocabulary through context rather than translation. Even though this is a beginner course, I looked through the French edition and there was quite a good chunk of new non-transparent vocabulary to me, so I think it will be quite valuable to work through extensively a few times. The other course I'm going to be using is the Passport book's Practice & Improve and Practice & Improve Plus series, which is much more thorough than other intermediate courses I've seen with 8 hours of full native audio between the two of them. These are continuous stories with sound effects and music, which make for quite pleasant extensive listening. The other huge benefit of these courses, which Professor Arguelles recommends in his Spanish French Italian German video, is that their content is very similar for all languages they're available in, so they'll become more useful as polyglot tools as I continue to re-use them for future languages. I'm going to keep working with native materials as well, but I'm planning on doing more intensive work, using Subs2SRS for movies and TV series and repeated L-R of difficult literature. The goal being to create bridges for myself so when I'm ready to move onto using native materials extensively I have some familiar content I can begin with to make the transition smoother. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4961 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 19 of 51 25 September 2014 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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YnEoS, is there a specific video you'd recommend? An order to watch them? The first time I've known about these videos I couldn't understand spoken English yet =D
I'm more and more convinced that assisted learning is important at least up to C1, and even later when you want to do some fine tuning. I've decided I will always kepp a 'slot' for using the best textbooks out there for my higher languages. So, I'm about to finish Modern German Grammar: A Practical Guide and later I will do Grammaire Progressive du Français and then Learn Norwegian, all these I need to brush up. My approach has to be different from when I'm devouring one textbook after another at the earlier stages. On the other hand, it will be easier because I already have a working knowledge of these languages. Linguaphone is invaluable, especially when the language has no Assimil or only 1 of it. I like it as my last resource before a B2-C1 monolingual textbook, or at least that's what I did with Norwegian. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 20 of 51 26 September 2014 at 12:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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Some of his videos make up short series that are best watched in order, but beyond that it doesn't particularly matter which order you watch them in, and I still haven't watched all of his Germanic language and South East language discussion videos.
Most immediately relevant to you would probably be this series of 3 videos 1. Extensive Reading and Vocabulary Range 2. Selecting Appropriate Texts for Expanding Vocabulary Range Through Extensive Reading 3. Moving from Intermediate Toward Advanced (Even though the first two video are aimed at learning after the intermediate stage,the intermediate-advanced video is best watched last since it was made as a response to a question about the other 2 videos and assumes you've already seen them). I also really enjoy all the videos on his Foreign Languages Series Reviews playlist. Even though you're probably very familiar with many of the courses he discusses already, I find it useful to learn what he likes/dislikes about them and how he uses them. A few ones I would specifically single out would be his review on Passport Series, I don't know if you've used it before or not, but they have a really great intermediate series that's not mentioned often enough on this forum, though unfortunately only available for French/Spanish/Italian/German. And the final video in the series Spanish French Italian German, in which he proposes a path he would take for learning these languages if he was starting all over again with the knowledge he has now, and even though it probably won't apply specifically to your situation I think it's still a useful to watch, and I'm applying some of the same principles to some of my other languages even though the path doesn't fit 100% with what he proposes. Edited by YnEoS on 26 September 2014 at 12:18am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 21 of 51 03 October 2014 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Just to bounce back and forth a bit, I have to say I'm now leaning much more heavily towards massive L-R for beginner/intermediate learning, but I've come to realize that book selection is quite important.
I recently did some intensive L-R in Japanese with Harry Potter 1 & 2 and it was definitely of a huge benefit as I soaked much more vocab than I typically do with course work. Before working through Assimil I would be comfortable til somewhere about lesson 20-30, but returning to shadowing the course after L-R, I'd say my comfort level ended somewhere around the lesson 50-60 range. So from now on I think I'm going to try and use L-R as my main way of starting new languages, and use courses more as supplements. What I've realized recently is that the way a book is written matters quite a bit. The original L-R post mentions using longer books because they'll repeat the same vocabulary, but I think writing style can be way more important. I was slightly disenchanted with L-R when for Russian I jumped straight from Assimil, to reading great Russian literature like Anna Karenina. Now Anna Karenina is really long and does repeat vocabulary, but it also rambles a lot with lots of side details and information, so you'll get several chapters immersed in farming vocabulary and then never return to any of it. Harry Potter however is made to be comfortable to read, and this doesn't just apply to the amount of vocabulary, but also in the repetition of story points and fantasy world concepts. For example, in the first book I think quidditch is brought up 3-4 times before an actual game is ever played. This actually kind of works as an internal SRS mechanism to make it easy for the reader to get acquainted with all the strange fantasy terminology, but also makes for useful language learning because every time quidditch is brought up you may hear words like broom, ball, player, points, and you know you'll keep returning to these same terms over and over again through the book. Tolstoy does this sort of thing too but there's much wider spaces between when things are set up and when they are brought back later in the story. The other cool new resource I found is that I figured out how to sign up for audible.de and audible.fr, so tons and tons of super cheap audiobooks are now at my disposal. I've tried previously and failed, It may have been a more difficult process before, or maybe my memory is bad and I didn't try hard enough. Either way it works now! I have to sign out of one account and sign into another to download audiobooks to my phone, but once I've downloaded the audiobook it all shows up on the audible app regardless of what account I'm logged into. So at the moment I'm L-R Les Miserables in French and Harry Potter in Japanese, I may try some Japanese literature just to switch things up a bit, but it may be too difficult. I've also got several German audiobooks I'm excited to get to, so finally my German studies will advance forward. With Russian I'm not really sure what to work on next, I think I could definitely benefit from L-R some lower level stuff, but L-R great literature would be better context for my film studies even if it's less efficient for language learning, and I might get more benefit returning to and re-reading some stuff I've already read before. Edited by YnEoS on 03 October 2014 at 9:29pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4961 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 22 of 51 03 October 2014 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As usual, I agree with you. I'm having better results now for Russian with Divergent. I don't do HP because I don't like repetition, you know, so I went for similar-level fables. I'm trying Jules Verne for Georgian and am enjoying it too. Having more dialogues is both easier and more motivating, because dialogues are more close to the familiar vocabulary you learn up to A2 than long descriptive paragraphs. And I'm going to try Alice in the Wonderland next (unless I find it as an audiobook for Norwegian so I can do L-R too).
Given that there are more audiobooks than books for Norwegian, I'm even considering doing L-R with only the SL text, and I believe it will indeed work for listening skills. Btw, haven't done L-R for German yet, fact is there are more books in German so I'm reading topics I was crazy about reading, in non-fiction, and I'd rather leave fiction for languages that offer less interesting non-fiction topics. I don't know if you go through this, but it's typical of people who are learning several languages and don't feel like reading HP 8 times. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 23 of 51 04 October 2014 at 12:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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I actually don't usually use parallel texts for L-R, because it's too much of a hassle to find and organize all the appropriate materials and often severely limits choices of content. L2 audio + L1 text seems to work just fine.
As for material selection, my preference is always for content that was originally written the language I'm studying, but I make exceptions at lower levels for efficiency's sake. So for example with Japanese, I'm using Harry Potter because it's faster than using a basic course like Assimil and helps me get to the material I'm interested in more quickly. Also, because I'm interested in storytelling strategies in relation to my film studies, I don't mind doing multiple passes through Harry Potter because each time I can analyze JK Rowling's storytelling methods more closely. Though I probably won't be re-using the series very often unless there's nothing else available. Ideally I would want to use a series originally written in the target language of a similar difficulty, length, and writing style, as harry potter but I'm not aware of such series for most of my languages. Edited by YnEoS on 04 October 2014 at 12:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| YnEoS Senior Member United States Joined 4049 days ago 472 posts - 893 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Cantonese, Japanese, French, Hungarian, Czech, Swedish, Mandarin, Italian, Spanish | Message 24 of 51 16 October 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hmmm today's a day where I rant wildly about something I just started instead of intelligently waiting a week to post something more thoughtful.
Sooo recently I had a bit of a revelation (I think) about anki, which is so stupidly simple I'm facepalming myself over and over for not thinking of it earlier. So for the past few months, I've always felt a bit of tension with my anki decks. Since I've been doing more sentence cards and combining multiple decks to create synergies, learning has become much easier, but progress moves slowly because it's impossible to increase the number of new cards per day without getting swamped with reviews and falling down to the 9th level of Anki hell. But I've noticed with sentence cards, when I do more new cards per day, I get more synergies and I learn things faster, but it's completely unsustainable. I've played around with going through entire Subs2SRS decks in a single day, and I definitely learn a lot of vocab doing that, but it's just not sustainable, and going through normally a few sentences per day just feels way too slow sometimes, especially for languages like French, where unknown words are less common. So basically the simple solution I wish I did forever ago, is to modify the review intervals for anki and make them much wider. I've always stuck to the default 1day/4day review option and figured I might experiment with it one day, but it probably wouldn't make a big difference. I was wrong, I think it makes a huge difference. Basically I think the default intervals work well for learning individual words and laying them down brick my brick. But with sentence cards that have lots of vocabulary overlap, I think it's much more important to look at a lot of new sentences introduced each day, and then cycle through them at much longer time intervals. So basically the idea is that I get a sentence, study it til I'm familiar with it, send it away for about a week, then in the mean time look at 100s of other sentences that may use similar vocabulary before I'm forced to remember the original sentence again. I just started this today and even before getting to the wide review loop, it seems to make a huge difference. Having more new cards makes anki much more fun, and many more synergies happen per study session. Also because there are more cards in between the reviews it often takes a lot longer before I see a card again, and as a result my memory has to work a bit harder the next time the card appears and that seems to help a lot with cementing stuff in. So I'm really excited because so far this seems to be improving every single aspect of anki. It's more fun, I'm learning more new words per day, and words are sticking much easier and with less effort. Seems like I'm really starting to maximize the benefits of extensive study where words just latch on when you see them in 2-3+ contexts, and forgetting and recalling things with Anki. Of course I'll have to wait to report back on how this works out in the long term, but I can't imagine it being anything but an improvement on my old study methods, though I'm sure it will take a bit of experimenting to find the right balance of new cards/review intervals. 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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