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Spanish: A little subs2srs experiment

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rdearman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4456 days ago

881 posts - 1812 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin

 
 Message 121 of 147
21 December 2014 at 6:06pm | IP Logged 
Hi Emk,

Had a look through my statistics for the French & Italian subs2srs which I've done. I've done the Hero Corp television series for French, and the film The Hobbit for Italian. I'm not as consistent as you with your studies.

For Hero Corp:
Days studied: 86% (38 of 44)
Total: 1403 reviews
Average for days studied: 36.9 reviews/day
Total: 5 hours
Mature: 34     
Young+Learn: 171
Unseen: 986     
Suspended+Buried: 100

For The Hobbit:
Days studied: 70% (12 of 17)
Total: 897 reviews
Average for days studied: 74.8 reviews/day
Days studied: 70% (12 of 17)
Total: 2 hours
Mature: 13     
Young+Learn: 208
Unseen: 1544     
Suspended+Buried: 81

I don't know if I'm just naturally more pessimistic (or stupid) but I'm not seeing a huge boost in comprehension. Although our situation is different since I already understood 50-70% of the dialogue and I can read ~B2 in both languages already.

Although I'm not having a huge increase in listening comprehension, I would say to anyone thinking about doing this I find subs2srs cards a lot more interesting than the normal word2word cards and I tend to do these cards first before moving on to the torture machine cards.

The reason I'm posting in your log is because this log has me thinking. I'm not getting the results you are, I believe because we are at different stages with the languages we are using subs2srs with. So I was thinking about how I could use subs2srs in such a way it would be more helpful to me. Then I remembered an exercise which Tarvos mentioned on the forums here where his tutor made them listen and translate a small chunk of dialogue.

This is what I have come up with. I'm going to do another set of French cards for a TV series I have Mafiosa, Le Clan. I don't have any subtitles for it at all in any language. So I will sit down with sub-edit and put in a placeholder whenever someone speaks, SOME_FRENCH_WORDS_HERE for example. Then I will allow the subs2srs to chop up the audio & video and insert my placeholder text. Because Anki will allow me to edit the card, I will listen to 1-2 cards per day, and translate them as best I can, thereby doing Tarvo's exercise once or twice each day. At the end of one month I will export my "translated" cards into a single anki deck and I hope to have one of my French speaking friends review the cards and give me corrections. I could use something with sub-titles, but I don't want to tempt myself.

What I am hoping to find from this exercise is after a period of intensive listening daily I will significantly improve my listening comprehension. I am not really sure how I could test this, other than doing 30 new cards the following month, and see if my score for 30 cards improves.

Suggestions?


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emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 4752 days ago

2615 posts - 8805 votes 
Speaks: English*, FrenchB2
Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 122 of 147
21 December 2014 at 9:43pm | IP Logged 
rdearman wrote:
I don't know if I'm just naturally more pessimistic (or stupid) but I'm not seeing a huge boost in comprehension. Although our situation is different since I already understood 50-70% of the dialogue and I can read ~B2 in both languages already.

Well, there are three things worth keeping in mind:

1. I started with basically no Spanish, and I'm using subs2srs as an Assimil replacement until I can watch TV unaided.
2. I have accurate Spanish subtitles, which allows me thoroughly learn very hard material.
3. I'm doing a lot of subs2srs.

The best way to measure quantity is to look at mature cards. At least in my experience, the real comprehension gains occur after 20–30 days, which is about the same time Anki marks the cards as "mature."

Here are your card numbers:

rdearman wrote:
For Hero Corp:

Mature: 34
Young+Learn: 171


For The Hobbit:

Mature: 13
Young+Learn: 208

That gives you a total of 47 mature cards across two languages, whereas I have 10 times that number just for Spanish alone:



To put this in perspective, Sprachprofi learned 1500 Japanese cards in 30 days. She might have had something like 500 mature cards and another 1000 young cards at the 30 day mark. And remember, we're both beginners tackling carefully selected TV series—the same sort of stuff that a strong B1 student might marathon-watch with decent comprehension.

So what about subs2srs as an intermediate? I actually tried this in French, and results were mixed. On the plus side, I could use subs2srs to gain near-total comprehension of my favorite French songs and movie scenes. But it was always far more effective when I had accurate subtitles.

The biggest problem with subs2srs at the intermediate and advanced level is that once you understand 90+% of the dialog in a series or movie, it's too much work to make subs2srs cards for the remaining 10%. I've love to see a tool like Fleex.tv with an integrated subs2srs mode. (In fact, I'd love to see a version of Fleex.tv for students of languages other than English.) If I had some way to capture 20 or 30 subs2srs cards from each episode of Le Trône de fer with minimal fuss, I'd be a very happy student.

All that said, I've tried side-by-side experiments comparing subs2srs and manual dictation exercises. Subs2srs (with accurate L2 transcripts) worked better than endlessly looping audio and trying to copy down what I heard. But your mileage may vary.

Episodes 11 & 12. Ah, that's better! My comprehension was much better than it was with episodes 9 and 10. To review:

Episode 5 (studied with subs2srs): 80+% comprehension.
Episode 6 (reviewed without subs2srs): Variable, but good overall.
Episodes 7 & 8: Less than 50% comprehension, but I could follow the plot pretty well! Definitely fun.
Episodes 9 & 10: Definitely harder than 7 and 8. Rough going overall.
Episode 11: Not as good as 7&8, but definitely better than 9 and 10.
Episode 12: Wow, this was great! I followed almost all the story, and I understood some sections solidly.

Overall, I feel like my comprehension is a little too low for extensive TV watching. Out of 6 episodes I hadn't seen in Spanish before, maybe 3 or 4 of them felt like they were helping me make progress efficiently. The hardest 2 felt like a waste of time—well, except for the fact that my Anki reviews afterwards were ridiculously easy.

EDIT: Summary: Out of 6 episodes, 3 or 4 of them were at the very low end of the "useful extensive listening zone". Another 2 were still outside of it. Excellent progress, especially for such a modest investment, but I still have more work to do.

Edited by emk on 21 December 2014 at 9:59pm

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Crush
Tetraglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5085 days ago

1622 posts - 2299 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto
Studies: Basque

 
 Message 123 of 147
22 December 2014 at 10:29am | IP Logged 
One thing i've found helpful at a more advanced stage is trying to repeat and mimic the sentence. It makes reviews take a bit longer but it seems to help the phrase stick in my head more and i find myself thinking of them throughout the day and tossing in the phrases or interesting parts of the sentence in my daily conversations. I've been doing this with Mandarin, and to compare i'm at:
Mature: 577
Young: 286
Suspended: 1266

EDIT: I'm also not noticing a huge boost in my comprehension, but at this stage that's to be expected. What i am noticing, however, is that i am noticing some of the words and phrases in conversations here, especially more colloquial stuff, and that it also helps reinforce things that i've studied but never really internalized. Though lately i've been suspending a lot more cards than adding them, which makes adding new cards take a lot longer.

Edited by Crush on 22 December 2014 at 10:33am

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emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 4752 days ago

2615 posts - 8805 votes 

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