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What Expug is doing in 2015 (TAC n more)

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Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
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 Message 89 of 364
04 March 2015 at 8:28pm | IP Logged 
Backup by mrwarper

I must confess I was apprehensive about the forum yesterday. I couldn't post my daily notes on time and had to wait for later. I actually posted in between the message error
and the proper maintenance message.

So, I had to invert some tasks today and I couldn't feel happier. I anticipated some video watching - Brødrene Dal, Les Infidèles, It Takes Two, Estonian Language and Mind - and postponed French and Norwegian reading and Russian textbook. I read comfortably from the Georgian Newspaper Reader and then went for Angels and Demons in Chinese, and this was a great read. I did have trouble with longer paragraphs but in the shorter ones I felt as if I could let go of Pera-pera. Georgian reading was even better, the best ever. Even the longer paragraphs start to become transparent and I'm starting to understand well enough before glancing at the translation. I'm at a peak of confidence right after a ranting a few days ago. Yeah, I know, that always happens, but now I do sense some sort of breakthrough is coming for Georgian and to all languages to some extent. As much as I regret having started 4 hard languages at once, I believe I will reach a comfortable intermediate level in all of them at the same time, and this alone will be a great source of motivation. Today reading in Georgian felt easy for the first time ever, and I feel I can do it after a good reviewing of aorist, perfect and future. In terms of conversation, my Chinese is even better than my Georgian.

Accomplished Language Textbook: Newspaper Chinese

This is now a thing of the past. I expected it to be more learner-friendly but it is for people who are at a solid B2. The selection of themes is appropriate in terms of vocabulary, but the format could consist of shorter texts.

Now I'm going for Short Chinese TV Plays, even without audio. I took a look at Schaum's Outline of Chinese Vocabulary and the lessons are too long. Unless I come up with a practical way of splitting them, I'm skipping them for the moment.

One sentence I keep hearing at შუა ქალაქში is რა გჭირს?. It translates as 'what happens to you?', and it is what you ask when something doesn't look that well. At least that's what a Georgian friend told me.

As things can't be perfect, the German reading interrupted the good string. I blame the extensive reading in German only first, as I only had the tablet with me at the moment. When I read the remaining pages in paralle at the desktop, I still hasn't 'tuned in' but it was average.

这个月几个朋友和我决定我们要学一首歌,要 背诵它。我选择了一首歌叫“橄榄树”。这是 一首很著名台湾的歌。歌手是齊豫。我在新加 坡电视连续剧“小子当家”第一次听过这首歌 ,很感动。我觉得每个人都有自己的橄榄树! 咱们都有一个最喜欢做,做的最好的东西。只 需要找到!可是我还没找哦到我的橄榄树,也 没学过这首歌。

This month a few friends and I decided to learn a song in order to memorize it. I chose a song called 'Olive Tree'. It is a very well-known Taiwanese song. The singer is Chyi Yu. I first heard it at the Singaporean TV series "I'm in Charge" and got moved by it. I think everyone has their own olive tree! We all have one thing we enjoy doing the most and can do best. All we have is to find it! But I still haven't found my olive tree, and I haven't learned the song yet either.

17 Assimil lessons finished today. On the way to finishing the book tomorrow. I must admit I retained much less than from the previous ones. There were some important lessons about asking for directions and for the bus and I should have memorized them, but I believe I know enough to get by. Will bring a phrasebook to ensure.
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Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
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 Message 90 of 364
04 March 2015 at 8:30pm | IP Logged 
Backup by mrwarper

Serpent wrote:
Wow that's an impressive pace with Assimil. I'm curious how that will go :)

Also, I've been hesitant to mention this, but in the Scandinavian challenges, could you please try to keep in mind not only beginners but also passive-only learners? (or those who currently aren't interested in writing)

@Serpent: I did have this in mind, it was just that no one had complained yet ;) I will think about something, suggestions are welcome, too.

My previous texts in Georgian, Chinese and Norwegian all got minor corrections, mostly in word order and style. I'm really happy with the result, especially in the case of Chinese, where I didn't write anything much clumsy. I relied on my own knowledge because Google Translator won't help with Chinese syntax. Despite, most of the times the appropriate phrasing came at first place from my own mind.

My comprehension of the texts from the Georgian Newspaper Reader saw some great improvement. Today I could once again understand the text part by part, regardless of the word order, without resorting to the translation, only looking up the missing words in the vocabulary.

I figured out my new Norwegian book is a translation. Needless to say it is the easiest I've read so far, not just because it is a translation, but because I learned a lot from reading not so easy books and now this one seems easy. It wouldn't 1 year ago.

All ok with Dan Brown in Chinese. I find it quite comfortable to keep reading and look up only the missing words.

I also finished the series Brødrene Dal og mysteriet om Karl XIIs gamasjer. It was fun and it was useful to my Norwegian. I'm starting to understand more sentences of spoken Norwegian. I'd like to watch more from Brødrene Dal, I'm actually trying to get hold of more, but meanwhile I'm going to watch what the films or videos already have, whether they have subtitles or not. It's time for some change.

I really enjoyed Short Chinese TV Plays' first lesson! It is the level I need. I know about 70% of the words so I can work on it more-or-less intensively. Then there are grammar explanations with sentences as well as cultural notes. All in a n+1/n+2 at most input level. I hope it keeps like this and the lessons don't become any longer than they are. Unfortunately there is no audio, but I really learn a lot. I figured out it is better to keep the glossary open, because Google Translate is faulty and they explain the idioms well in the glossary. This way I can really study the lessons intensively.

The first lessons are crucial for deciding what will be my approach to a textbook. If I notice the lessons are way too long or too difficult, I end up reading them almost like an extensive text. It is important to evaluate it properly, though. I can't just lazily assess it is too difficult and avoid studying it thoroughly. I should make a conscious try and only give up on 'intensive study' if I notice there are so many new words that the retention will be marginal.

Best day with Georgian reading ever. Again. It may be too early to speak of a critical mass being formed, but I've never been so confident. Today it was easier to read Georgian than it usually is to read German.

Now for an improvement, it was a good day with reading German, too. I remained focused on both content and language, flipping through German and English so I could understand the sentences. I only read longer excerpts at few moments. After a couple of pages I really felt some sort of flow, when I resorted to English only for the odd word in a sentence. It might have helped that this specific selection had shorter sentences, but maybe it's the other way round, it's my tolerance for longer sentences that raised thanks to my progress overall. Let's be optimistic ;)

It was a great, relaxing day with reading Russian, too. It's a streak! And I'm not saying it was bad with the videos, either.

Accomplished Language Textbook: O novo Italiano sem esforço

There is only so much to say about this book! It is on my list of books I've had for a long time but never got down to studying. The opportunity came with my trip to Italy next April. I am not a true beginner, far from that. Italian was my first foreign language when I decided to study languages for the sake of it (i.e. apart from mandatory English and Spanish) and after reaching some reading fluency I put it on hold for no shorter than fifteen years. Other languages were out there, more exotic, more challenge, and I lacked the opportunity to use active skills, anyway.

I took the same approach with Italian as I did with German and will do with any another faux-debutant language I decide to restart (Spanish or Esperanto): I decided I won't lose much time with easy textbooks. These are mostly languages which abound in resources (at least 3 Assimil editions + a Perfectionnement), and in the case of Italian (and Spanish) languages I can already read after only some introductory grammar studies.

I chose O novo Italiano sem esforço 1) because it is the edition widely available in Brazil, and that allowed me to solve the issue with interference/conflict/overanalizing with French by learning in my native language and 2) because it is the least learner-friendly of the Assimils, with a steeper learning curve and more vocabulary cramming. It was a nightmare in the case of Russian, but since Italian has so much in common and I was no beginner, it was actually an advantage as I could focus on what was different.

Truth be said, I studied it so quickly - over 15 lessons a day - that I'm not expecting to activate all the important vocabulary, but I do hope to activate some and to learn the non-cognates passively. All during the learning I tried to imagine myself in real-life tourist situations, trying to sound natural and trying to use the real Italian words (i.e. not cognates to French, Spanish or Portuguese) when it was the case.

It is a good book but with the caveat that its learning curve is steep for a non-Romance speaker and that the 2000k's edition will be much more user-friendly.

What comes next? My trip is a month away. I am browsing my catalogue for books that cover specifically tourist situations but in form of lessons, not lists. If I don't find anything or if I notice the English on them just slows me down, I will move on with my learning and pick up Perfectionnement. So I will learn it like an ordinary language, not with tourist focus, but aware that what I know is already enough to get by as a tourist in Italy. Less pressure, that is. I really don't plan on using the old without toil, it's a format that only slows me down with excessive explanations typical of textbooks aimed at language speakers. I will save the 2007 edition, L'Italien, for an occasional review before I drop textbooks. I know there is a lot of advanced grammar to learn but I can learn it through reading and writing.

Found Teach Yourself Instant Italian and Teach Yourself Italian Conversation. Will give both a go. I noticed Perfectionnement Italien has 94 lessons, so it will be mostly a post-trip resource for continuing to learn some language explicitly while moving slowly into native materials. I admit I won't have time for the combo 10 min film + 10 pages a day in Italian, even if that will be easy, so I plan to use Assimil Perfectionnement to keep the language growing steadily. My strategy for a transparent language with abundant material is quite different for an opaque language with scarce material.

I also found a monolingual textbook called 'Parola a te' that introduces each of the Italian regions. Probably dangerous now that I've already prenotato all my tickets and hotels as it would create some actual travel wanderlust which I wouldn't be able to fulfill, but it looks like the ideal textbook for learning about the culture as well. Reminds me of my monolingual Norwegian textbooks.

One positive note about studying 17 Assimil lessons a day: I got so fed up with passive study these days that when I finished Assimil my most urgent desire was to go for something different, that is, to practice output. And it resulted in the best paragraphs I've written so far in my weaker languages. That is, reaching a limit with input in the end of the day put me in the mood for doing good output. Some finds in this life of learning multiple languages.
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 Message 91 of 364
04 March 2015 at 8:32pm | IP Logged 
Backup by mrwarper

Emme wrote:

Sorry I answer only now, but I’ve just found out that I can still access the forum through the back door (i.e. forgotten open tabs in my browser) despite the current technical issues.

Expugnator wrote:

One Italian doubt: how often and at what register is the expletive ce used in sentences like 'Ce l'hai una sigaretta?', 'Non ce l'ho'? My French background would expect a 'ne' instead.

Since the sentence uses the “tu” form we must assume that this is not a formal situation (where you use the 3rd person). In such a case, in the spoken language this is certainly the most common way to ask that question. When writing even a text message, which is usually informal, we prefer to leave out the “ce lo/la” because we are lazy ;-) and we prefer the shorter version. But the answer remains the same above anyway.

The “ne” is more formal, but I suspect that its role in the sentence is somewhat different: it usually refers back to something already mentioned almost as if it were a relative pronoun. You would never ask “*Ne hai una sigaretta?” but if you are already talking about cigarettes you might ask “Ne hai?/Ne hai una?” or even more colloquially/informally “Ce ne hai una?”

Honestly, I can’t remember exactly how it works in French, so I can’t help you compare the two languages.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask for clarifications.

Edited by Emme on 28 February 2015 at 7:59pm

Anna wrote:
I really liked "Olive tree" song! Thanks a lot for the link and translation!

@Emme: thank you, it is clear now. I have to get more exposured because it is a tricky usage which involves register.

@Anya: I'm glad you liked it! I'm also following your recommendations on books and video at your log.

It was a productive weekend. I watched a fake documentary in French called "Milliardaire", which I didn't like much but I need films. I am more in the mood for series now, I don't feel like watching whatever comedy in French. In the case of films, though, there is the convenience of watching them at the tablet in my hidden moments at the weekend, since I don't sit down to study on weekends. I also read 7 pages from the Russian book I read only from home, and finished a long chapter I was stuck at for a long time. This book is still much harder than reading from the Divergent series.

Today I understood quite a bit from the Chinese series from CCTV. I'm starting to notice some patterns. I'm close to finishing my dabbling resources at Estonian and I really don't know what to do next, whether to review a textbook or to keep moving on even if I still feel like a complete beginner, or do both things.

Finally some classical motivation for my Scandinavian studies: reading the Eddas. I don't know how long it will take starting from bokmål, and it is a long-term project, but at least now I can see Norwegian less like a TV language.

I started watching the film 'Elling' and now I feel like watching the film-only prequel Mors Elling and the sequel which corresponds to the final book, Elsk meg i morgen, which means I will have to try and find the two books that come before.

It was a long but good lessons from Short Chinese TV Plays. In the beginning I was still a bit lost at the story, but then the dialogues became more short and intense and so I sort of catched up. I'm doing the following: I paste the dialogues at Google Translate part by part and check pinyin. Usually the translation isn't good enough, but at least U can spot the most complicated expressions. Then I check the glossary at the book where I can see some expressions cleared up. By doing so I can keep a fair percent of understanding as well as do some practicing. There is no translation at the book.

Had a nice time with Georgian reading and series. I could read whole paragraphs and understand them. I also understood full conversations in the series. I really miss watching Kuxnya so that I can make even more progress.

Things are moving slowly but consistently with German. I understood several paragraphs but skipped a longer one with different punctuation. The new film I'm watching, Rosenstraße, also allows me to better practice with better audio quality, even though I don't have the German subtitles.

The new episode of Game of Thrones which I watch in French has hardcoded subtitles in French. They are so abridged and so different that most of the times they confuse me. Being able to understand the spoken language feels great at such times.

Today I met my most remarkable false friend in Turkish: 'alt' means low, while 'alto' in Portuguese means 'high'. This is just the beginning of the confusion! I have a theory that false friends stand out and annoy us more when you keep pointing them out. If not, then you just learn the words in context and when you switch and are on a flow in your L2 you don't think of how a word relates to another in your L1 or in a stronger L2.

In my quest for learning as much touristy Italian as possible until the end of this month, I've picked up Teach Yourself Instant Italian. The book has good output exercises. I need to remind myself of 'a destra o a sinistra" and then 'sempre diritto'. In Portuguese we say 'reto' or 'direto' for 'diritto', easy to mix up things. 'Dove sono i servizi?' is a no-forget.

So, I found time for another episode of Kuxnya! Always good practice, though I had a harder time understanding longer sentences, when the automated translation from Russian doesn't go that well. It is only a matter of time till synergy happens among all of my resources - the other series, the book and Kuxnya. All of them are quite colloquial and so there is an overlap of vocabulary, expressions and situation that does good for my studies.

Started the output challenge. Georgian. To Think of a Herculean task! I wrote 138 words (4 paragraphs) and paused when it was time to go. It took me almost one hour for that; either I lacked the Georgian knowledge or a topic to write about, or both. I want to do fiction next after this one, because it is easier when you write linearly and you have an idea where the story is head (or can make it up, for that matter).
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 Message 92 of 364
04 March 2015 at 10:17pm | IP Logged 
Several posts lost during maintenance. I'm not sorry for this log because it's mostly a collection of impressions, not of links or anything. The great losses are the challenges at the team threads and the discussions at the other fora. Well, life goes on. If anyone wants to discuss a specific topic that is only in the cosmic memory now, feel free to drop some lines. I recovered a few posts thanks to mrwarper, as you can see above, but Monday and Tuesday are missing. No big deal, really.

I started doing the Goethe-Verlag tests for Estonian, and I must say they are going to be really useful. They won't teach me grammar explicitly as there is no indication of the cases being used and such, that's not the point of the tests. What I expect is to become familiarized with the case usage and other features, and that is already something. I am going to do 3 tests a day, I believe it is a good number.

Since I'm going to start the textbook 'E nagu eesti' and will be doing those tests, my Estonian time will be longer. Nothing like the time when I was studying from Basic Course in Estonian, but I am going to need some patience these days as I will start finishing tasks later than usual. I was used to doing Estonian-Russian-Georgian studies at no longer than a half hour and finish the French reading before lunch, and now I will have to be more patient because I will come back to lunch still at my French reading.

I expected Norwegian to be easier, since I'm reading a translation. I'm only looking up the occasional word that I find more important. Since it's a crime novel, I do get lost sometimes, but the same could happen if it was in Portuguese.

All is fine with Chinese and Angels & Demons so far. I hope to finish the year much more skilled with the vocabulary in Dan Brown's book.

In the missing posts I wrote about the struggle with writing one single page of 500 words for the Output Challenge in Georgian. It's still time to give up, as most of the subscriptions have been lost, hehe. On Monday and Tuesday combined I only managed 250 words so far.

Accomplished Language Textbook: Teach Yourself Instant Italian

Just finished this book with 3 units (started on Monday). I'm not very fond of TY but I like this one, it has what I need. There are long dialogues and the language seems genuine, not so much bookish. Units 5 and 6, which I did today, even border the intermediate level, so one is expected to absorb a lot. There are good output exercises, so I believe I learned a bit from this book. Now I'm going to do Teach Yourself Italian Conversation. Same school, but 10 shorter lessons. Will see how many I can do a day.

It just came up to my mind that the Turkish run of the Turkic challenge ends this month and I'm mostly dabbling. Did I go through many of the main features? Yes, I did. I just don't think I've acquired enough corpus to be able to compare Turkish with another language. Well, maybe after all languages I will have a bigger picture. Or maybe I should finish Le turc tout de suite and do at least one proper Turkish textbook this month.

Today was the busiest day ever here. I finished the language tasks and more over an hour ago but I was busy and couldn't have a look at the Georgian post at all. Still stuck at 250 words.
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 Message 93 of 364
05 March 2015 at 9:23am | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
Several posts lost during maintenance. [...] The great losses are the challenges at the team threads and the discussions at the other fora. [...] I recovered a few posts thanks to mrwarper, as you can see above, but Monday and Tuesday are missing. No big deal, really.

The day I finished my backup scripts I had to keep up with life instead of building something else to run them automatically, and the next morning it had all gone poof, hence the 16 hours minimum gap. Some threads had been backed up in previous passes so the gap was up to maybe two days. Sorry, buddy. Irony is, If the rollback had happened a mere two hours later nothing would have been lost.

About other threads, well, I can't restore others' posts myself so unless a moderator takes on that... which reminds me we both posted at the ventral route thread, and maybe you want to re-post there. (I actually lost your last post there, I had it for a while and then I seemingly overwrote it with an earlier backup. Hey, I do what I can, but I'm far from perfect. :)
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 Message 94 of 364
05 March 2015 at 10:46pm | IP Logged 
@mrwarper: don't worry, you've already done a lot. I was merely letting others know that there is a gap and thus new stuff I write might seem out of context.

Another good day with Happy Journey Across China. My reading skills seem to be faster and I am more and more able to understand audio and text on the go.

Watching Norwegian films and series has turned into one of the most fun aspects of my language learning. I have other episodes of Brødrene Dal and the other Elling films lined up. And Dag Sesong 4 is coming. If only I could already understand spoken Norwegian effortlessly...

All the reading went fine so far. Chinese, Georgian, German. Even if the Georgian still had some annoying parts. I just didn't manage to focus on the Georgian series, even though I was advanced in my schedule. I really get tired on Thursdays and Fridays, so it's not just a matter of having or not having enough time for doing everything, but rather of avoiding burnout. Right now I managed to avoid it a bit by browsing away while watching the film in German. I had to sacrifice some minutes of it for the sake of feeling better, at least it worked. Today I watched more than usual, so it's fine.

I really need sequential video for German. With subtitles in German. If there is a German learner reading this, please recommend me a series. I couldn't find any yet and I'm missing all the positive aspects of reading the subtitle in the native language and thus becoming familiarized with the spoken language on the go.

I finished the 'easy' tests for Italian, and now there are 100 more, advanced ones. I think it's wise to finish Italian now, as it's quite an upper-intermediate language and I'm going there in three weeks. Once I'm done with these I will think of doing these tests for another language just to brush up. By the way, I didn't write earlier but I'm doing them also for Estonian and they are helping a lot.

Started Teach Yourself Italian Conversation. It is very short and direct. The dialogues are short and quite objective. They do have some key words that are not cognate or look different in Italian, like albergo (hotel). prenotare (book), noleggiare (rent), fermata (stop), binario (platform), accettare (accept), compreso (included). It is a book worth shadowing before the trip. I could have studied all the conversations today, but I want to activate this vocabulary. I already understand it. So, tomorrow I will listen to the previous lessons again and then the newer ones. Since the book is mirrorred, it may help to look at the English and try to translate it into Italian to check your active skills the Assimil way. And so I did it, only mentally though.

Here you are, 500 words in Georgian. I'm sure it's way more than what the average Georgian (or latin-script) book page has. This specific text doesn't make sense, but next I'm going to try some fiction, maybe fables - each time picking a new animal, for example - so that words may flow more easily. I ran out of subjects several times. Writing 50000 words even in your native language is quite a challenge.

გადავწყვიტე, რომ ყოველ დღე ხუთასი სიტყვას დავწერ ქართულად. შეგნებული ვარ, ეს ადვილი ამოცანა არ იქნება, მაგრამ მგონია, ასეთი ჩვეულება ძალიან სასარგებოლა ჩემი ქართულის ცონდისთვის. უკვე სამი წელია რომ ვსწავლობ ქართულად, მაგრამ კარგად ვერ ლაპარაკობ ან კითხულობ.

როდესაც ვცდილობთ გრძელ ტექსტების დაწერა, ხშირად ვგრძნობთ, რომ ვერ გვახსოვს ზუსთი სიტყვები. ეს ჩემთვის ხდება ნებისმიერ ენაზე, მაგრამ რაც უფრო ძნელი ენაა, მით უფრო მძიმეა სიტყვების გახსენება. ამიტომ მინდა ადვილი და ჩვეულებრივი შემთხვევაის შესახებ დავწერო.

ძალიან მომწონს წიგნების კითხვა. სხვადასხვა წიგნს ვკითხულობ ნებისმერ ენად. საუკეთესოდ ვკითხულობ პორტუგალიურად, ეს რომ ჩემი დენა ენაა. ძალიან კარგად ვკითხულობ კი ინგლისურად, ფრანგულად და პაპიამენტოდ. ბევრს გავიგებ როდესაც ვკითხულობ ნორვეგიულად ან გერმანულად, მაგრამ არც ყველაფერი. ქართულად, რუსულად და ჩინურად ასევე ვკითხულობ, მაგრამ მხოლოდ ორმოცდაათი პროცენტი მესმის ტექსტიდან.

დღის ამინდი ნამდვილი სასიამოვნოა. ცა ღრუბლიანი იყო გუშინ, მაგრამ არ წვიმდა. დღეს ნაკლები ღრუბლებია ცაში. მზე მალე ჩავა და სახლში დავბრუნდები. როესაც სალხში ჩამოხვალ, დავისვენებ. არაფერი არ უნდა გავაკეთო. იქნებ სერიალებს ვუყურებ ტელევიზორში, იქნებ ცოტა წავიკითხავ.

ფეხით დავდივარ სამსახურში. ეს ჩემთვის უფრო სწრაფი და უფრო იაფი სატრანსპორტო საშუალებაა. უფასოა, რასაკვირველია.
ავტობუსი ძალიან ნელია რადგან მოძრაობა ცუდია. ველოსიპდი მაქვს, მაგრამ ცხელაა როდესაც დავდივარ სამსახურში, ამიტომ იშვიათად ვე­ლო­სი­პე­დით მოვგზაურობ სამსახურში. ჩემს სალხს ახლოს არსებობს მეტრო სადგური, მაგრამ სამსახურში არ დადის.

მშია. ნახევარ საათში შევჭამ. სამი ბუტერბროტი მოვიტანე სახლიდან. ერთი მათგანი უკვე შევჭამე ოთხ საათზე. დანარჩენი ორი შევჭამ ექვსი საათისთვის. სამსახურში ჯერ ბევრი თანამშრომელია. ყველაზე მეტად მუშაკები მიდიან სახლში შვიდი საათზე.

ერთი კოლეგა სპორტულ ფეხსაცმელებს ყიდის. მისი არ არიან, ერთმა მეგობარმა სთხოვა ფეხსაცმელების გაყიდვა. ისინი პუმას მარ­კაა. ძალიან ლამაზი და მსუბუქი. ერთი ვიყიდე, ნაცრისფერია. ბევრი დავდივარ და კომფორტული ფეხსაცმელი მჭირდება. ეს ფეხსაცმელიც კომფორტიულია. გუშინ ახალი ფეხსაცმელი გავცვე, მაგრამ დღეს ძველის დავბრუნდე. ესენი ეიზიკსია. მართლა ხომ მითხარი, ძველი არ არის. გასულ დეკემბერს ვიყიდე.

დაკავებული არ ვარ. დრო მაქვს, მაგრამ ჯერ ძნელია ქართული ენაზე წერა. იმედი მაქვს, რომ წლის ბოლომდე უფრო ჩქარა დავწერ. ახლა არაფეფერი არ მახსოვს, რომლის წერა რომ შემეძლო. ბევრი გამოცვლა აქ არ ხდება. შაბათ-კვირა მალე წამოდი და იქნებ სხვა საქმეზე დავიკავებ. ბავშვები ჯერ არ მაქვს, სახლში ცხოველები არ არიან. ძალიან მომწონს წიგნის კითხვა პლანშეტური კომპიუტერში. ზოგჯერ სერალებს ვუყურე ტელევიზორში. იმ დროს, როდესაც არაფერია საინტერესო, ადრე მძინავს.

წინათ ბევრჯერ დავწერე ქართულად. ქართველები მუმდა დამეხმარე გასწორებთან. ბოდიში რომ ყოველთივის იგივე შეცდომების დავიმეორებ. ქართული ენა ნამდვილად ძნელია. უკვე სამი წელია რომ ვსწავლობ ქართულს, მაგრამ ვერ ვლაპარაკობ. მიუხედავად ამისა, ჯერ მომწონს ქართულის სწავლა. ახალი საქმეები ვსწავლობ ყოველდღიურად. რა საინტერესოა ქართულის სწავლა. სამწუხაროდ, კარგი წიგნები არ არის ქართულის სწავლისთვის. ვგულისხმობ, საკმარისი წიგნები არ არის. ცოტა ქართული შევისწავლე წიგნებიდან. მაგრამ საკმარისი არ იყო კარეგი კითხვისთვის. ესე იგი, როცა დავამთავრე ყველა ჩემი წიგნის კითხვა, ჯერ არ შემეძლო ქართული თექსტების კითხვა. მგონია, უკვე შემიძლია ცოტა ქართული ვილაპარაკო, მაგრამ ბევრად მეტი მინდა ვსწავლო.

ვიცი, რომ ეს თექსტი საინტერესო არ არის. ბოდიში გეთაყვათ, მეგობრებო! მალე დავწერ ქართულად უკეთესად. ახლა ვცნობ, ამ თექსტის წერა ხუთასი სიტყვებით შეუძლებელი არ არის! ყველას მოთმინება გთხოვთ. ქართული ასე ლამაზი ენაა, რომ თითოეული დაბრკოლება დაუძლეველი არ ჩანს.

სამწუხაროა, რომ ექვსი საათზე კონდიციონერი გამორთულია. ახლა არც თუ ცხელა არ არის, მაგრამ უარესი დღე იყო. ზამთარი მენატრება! სინამდვილეში ჩვენი ზამთარი არ არის ცივი. მხოლოდ ცოტა დღისთვის პიჯაკი გვჭირდება. რა თქმა უნდა, არასდროს არ თოვს.

I'm not sure anyone will correct it, who knows. If I succeed in writing good fiction, maybe I will get corrections and followers! Creativity is the same thing even if it is much harder to write in a B1-foreign language. What's more, if I do get corrections for this text, it will provide me with so many islands and will solve so many doubts that everything will be easier from now on. I tried not to tone down or dumb down what I write. I tried to express the same thoughts I would in my native language, not replacing a more specific word with a simpler one, not paraphrasing (unless I already knew Georgian expressed that same concept with different syntax). It was intensive writing, so to say.
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Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 3214 days ago

689 posts - 1119 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto
Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian

 Message 95 of 364
05 March 2015 at 11:04pm | IP Logged 
Congratulations on your first page :) I have no idea what it says but it looks so
impressive! I think you must have the most challenging language of those of us who have
signed up so far.
1 person has voted this message useful

Senior Member
Joined 3797 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 Message 96 of 364
06 March 2015 at 2:22pm | IP Logged 
THIS IS A REPOST FROM MARCH 3, THANKS MRWARPER. With this we conclude the restoration of our backup.

Radioclare wrote:
Good luck with the Output Challenge :) I have started the writing part as well and I am already daunted by how much we have committed to write!

@Radioclare: we're crazy, aren't we? And you're doing fine so far. My Georgian is much weaker than your croatian, but I firmly believe this exercise will help it. I'd consider even 1/10 of challenge completion as a victory (5000 words). With all this output x input discussion we have seen at the forum, I think keeping doing both consistently is clearly a path to success.

A day for decisions in Estonian. First, good news: the site Pangloss is back online. I downloaded the videos and I'm about to finish watching them, but it's nice to know it's back online.

Today I finish reading the Estonian Language tumbler. That means I have to pick another supporting material for my studies. I decided I'm going to do the Goethe-Verlag tests (the same I'm doing for Italian and have done for Norwegian (both levels), Russian and German (beginner level-only).

Then tomorrow I finish the course Estonian language and mind which I meant above. My level of Estonian is still low. I need a lot of drillings both in grammar and vocabulary. The Goethe-Verlag tests will help with that, but I'm a bit reluctant to go for an intermediate-level textbook while my level is clearly that of a beginner.

There is this textbook Naljaga Pooleks. The material is excellent! It is aimed at Russian speakers. I was just listening to the first lesson. They explain the method in Estonian then in Russian - and I understand the Russian. Then they explain the main expressions in Estonian followed by Russian - again, I understand the Russian. They speak slowly. Then the dialogue starts. It is long, which means it sounds quite natural and contextual instead of clipped in a bookish way. Then there is a traditional song. I don't know, I'm afraid once again of wasting a great resource by using it an an inappropriate level.

So, I'm going for E Nagu Eesti. It is monolingual but it is aimed at beginners. I won't be sorry if I 'waste' it because there's still T nagu Tallinn as a sequel. Then I will keep working with the tests for practicing vocabulary and grammar. If, by the time I finish the tests I notice my grammar is still too low, then I will review from one of the classical textbooks (Basic Course in Estonian or Tuldava's). I find it less annoying to review grammar-based textbooks or even those based on non-fiction (like the Georgian Newspaper Reader) than to review a course with characters, a plot and such.

By the way, the Estonian forum at Unilang is fairly active. It's even a better place to ask for corrections than italki, I guess. Not that I'm going to write in Estonian anytime soon, but when you learn several languages and you have an idea of the path beyond, it's good to think some steps in advance.

There are also the courses from and from Oneness, but I can only access their audio and video from home and they are elementary. Now that I'm thinking: I will try to work on one of their lessons early in the morning. If I succeed, then I will keep doing so because at least I will be reviewing the basics. The problem is their lessons are long and involve flipping through a lot of sections: you go to one page for grammar, another one for the video, another one of the vocabulary. These are interfaces that just make things less practical with too much interactivity.

I had a great time reading a story from the Russian Fairy Tales book with parallel reading. I noticed lots of words that I hear quite often at Bednaya Nastya, which means that synergy is happening!

Things went well with 'Angels and Demons' in Chinese, but even better with the textbook 'Short Chinese TV Plays'. I read the dialogues practically intensively, paying attention to the fewer unusual words. There is repetition in the dialogues, which helps learning. Then the grammar notes deal with adverbs and syntax features which are not unknown, but which are explaianed with good sample sentences that allow me for consolidating what I learn while also reviewing. I'm really happy about this book. Even if the lessons are long (10 pages of scripts which I counted as half for the SC), I think it's totally worth it.

Song of the day: Amoureuse, by Véronique Sanson (still watching Les Infidèles). I played it while I waited for the Georgian book to open at . It usually takes several minutes, but only because I wanted to patiently listen to a song, it opened quickly this time.

Today's Georgian reading was boring. There was a contract in the middle of the novel. German was slow but quite productive, as I read almost intensively, even through longer periods with loose punctuation.

Today might be the day where I paid most attention to my studies. I resisted the temptation to speed up after being busy for a while and thus going behind schedule. I'm noticing progress in all languages. I'm still longing for the day I will be able to read a non-germanic/romance language in basic fluency.

I struggled and ended up writing 70 words more in Georgian, which means I haven't made my first post for the 100-page output challenge yet.


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