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What Expug is doing in 2015 (TAC n more) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4951 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 249 of 364 15 July 2015 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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@iguanamon, nice to see you writing in Haitian Creole again! I'm afraid I don't understand as much as you do with Papiamento, as it seems more distant from French than Papiamento is from Spanish. Fortunately there is Google Translate for the toughest part, so you are privileged somehow =D I wish Google added Papiamento, I'd be gladto help adding some sample sentences to start the engine. It's a pity that it's not so practical for you to visit the Dutch Antilles, they have some unique cultural flavor.
@Luso, actually I forgot to add the 'com' also in the Portuguese example, though I realize it is more 'optional' in Portuguese than in Italian. I edited the original post. And yes, I'm referring to the colloquial language here. @daristani, thank you! Always precise and on time. My day started with chatting with smallwhite in Mandarin. It was quite helpful! I could mantain the text chat at Skype at the smartphone, making no use of translator either for understanding or for replying. Only towards the end I had more complicated things to say and so I sat down at the desktop, but all in all I feel I'm starting to gain some fluency, even if the result still has plenty of mistakes. I feel the same for Georgian, so maybe it is time to reactivate my Georgian partnerships. As I installed Skype at the smartphone, which is way faster than the old tablet I bring here and besides it has the Georgian keyboard, so I can talk more practically. Sometimes technology makes a great difference indeed. The advantage of using a book from the Soviet times: I just learned to say 'Ma räägin gruusia keelt' in Estonian =D É sempre piacevole finire un libro, particolarmente in una lingua straniera. Ho appena finito di ascoltare il libro 'Froskeslottet" di Jostein Gaarder. Ho solamente ascoltato il libro, l'ho letto in portoghese. A dire la verità, ho voglia di leggere di nuovo in norvegese, ma non ho libri eletronici, non ci voglio spendere soldi e ho già un paio di audiolibri in norvegese per i cui ho i testi in portoghese, francese o inglese. Quindi il mio prossimo libro in norvegese sarà anche esclusivamente un audiolibro. Finalmente comincierò a leggere un libro di Hamuki Murakami, uno scrittore giapponese che mi hanno tante volte consigliato a causa del suo stile ottimista. Ho trovato l'edizione brasiliana ed ho intenzione di fare lo stesso che ho fatto con l'audiolibro precedente: audio in norvegese, testo in portoghese, la mia lingua madre. Forse potrei ascoltare i file audio anche nel smartphone mentre leggo sul tablet, e così non sarò troppo dipendente dal computer per studiare norvegese. I'm not enjoying my reading of Angels and Demons in Chinese anymore. The story is at a tense moment, it is annoying to see the bad guys taking control. I am a bit impatient to reach the end and feel at least momentarily relieved - I know the other books are similarly tense. I don't know, maybe I should read something different in Chinese next because my impatience with the story is not doing well for my proffiting from the reading in terms of actually learning Chinese. Well, at least I'm reading from other sources as the fables or the ebook I have in the tablet and which I read extensively. Surprisingly enough, the Georgian reading time, that used to be the toughest one of the day, now is almost relaxing. it helps that I'm reading the second book of a translated trilogy and that the language isn't that complicated, but it's still meaningful. I still confuse some short, usual verbs about perception and feelings and they often hinder me from gaining a better understanding. Sometimes the infinitive of one verb has the same radical as the present of another one which in turn has the same past of the infinitive of the third one! Nothing could be more confusing. So, it's a matter of getting used. I also should take a look at the many Georgian resources I've gathered in the past months after I stopped using phrasebooks, because I'm sure I'd benefit from drilling the most important verbs or at least reviewing reading about them. My idea of writing the date of study is already proving useful. Today I finished the Advanced German part at the Goethe-Verlag tests, and by flipping back at the notebook and finding where I started it, I could then look for that day's post and remember which ones are still missing. Advanced Russian, advanced Estonian and advanced Chinese. So, advanced Russian shall it be. It helps that the advanced isn't so advanced, actually an intermediate one, so it works as some practice since at the first 'wave' I usually am still a bit rusty, and then at this second string I actually start to activate some vocabulary and fill in some gaps. I think it's ok to do only 3 exercises each day for Russian, no need to rush as it is going to be my longest and most consistent Russian output practice for a while. Yet another subtitleless part at the Russian 'Ugly Betty'. Today I started to understand some scenes fully. Manchmal frage ich mich, ob ich dieses Log auf meiner Muttersprache sprechen könnte. Jedesmal, wenn ich an dem Sprachlernprozess denke, mache ich es auf Englisch. Ich glaube, es fehlt mir sogar die notwendigen Worte, diesen Prozess zu beschreiben. Kann sein, einige dieser Worte bestehen noch nicht auf Portugiesisch; ein Paar von Ihnen muss (oder soll?) ich eigentlich erfinden oder anpassen. Na los, versuchen wir es mal! Às vezes me pergunto se eu conseguiria escrever este logue na minha língua materna. Cada vez que eu penso no processo de aprendizado de idiomas faço isso em inglês. Acredito que me falta o vocabulário necessário para descrever este processo. Talvez algumas dessas palavras não existam ainda em português; algumas delas eu preciso (ou deveria?) inventar ou adaptar. Bem, vamos tentar! Acabei me confundindo e assisti o décimo-segundo episódio da segunda temporada de Futurama em alemão, em vez do décimo-primeiro. Quando anoto na agenda, costumo escrever o que devo fazer no dia seguinte, ou seja, qual episódio devo começar, e não qual eu assisti no dia anterior. Logo, ontem eu escrevi 'Futurama S2E11', ou seja, ontem eu assisti o décimo episódio e hoje, portanto, deveria assistir o décimo-primeiro. Mas às vezes bato o olho e me confundo, achando que eu escrevi o número do episódio que eu acabei de ver. Foi por isso que acabei assistindo o décimo-segundo hoje. Não tem problema, escrevi hoje novamente na agenda 'Futurama S2E11', com um aviso entre parênteses para "pular o 12". Assim vou saber que na sexta eu vou ter que assistir o décimo-terceiro e não o décimo-segundo. São detalhes pequenos, mas que quando começam a complicar podem embolar o desenrolar dos trabalhos e nos fazer perder minutos preciosos. Este é um dos motivos por que eu faço questão de sempre anotar onde parei em cada material que estou utilizando, do contrário perderia muito tempo tentando achar a página certa ou a cena certa. ბადრიჯანი (read: badrijani) means eggplant in Georgian. In uzbek it's baqlajon. On the other hand, cucumber in Uzbek is 'bodring', which in Georgian is unrelated, კიტრი (k'itri). Today I did something different with the text from chinesereadingpratice.com . I pasted it at Google Translate and tested its text-to-speech feature. Not bad! Not only the tones overall make sense, even the pauses and commas are respected. That almost brings the feeling of L-Ring. The speech speed is fast, nevertheless I managed to follow it! It's true, I missed learning some new words in depth, which is the point of reading intensively, but this experiment was enough for me to realize that perhaps it's time to try listening-reading in Chinese again! Last time I did, I couldn't follow it. It was the book 'Digital Fortress', I think. I couldn't listen, read characters, mouse-hover for pinyin and translation and look at translation at the same time. It didn't help much the fact the sound files were stored on a website and not downloadable. Maybe now it's time to try L-Ring again! No time for Kuxnya. No big deal, I'm already on a good string with Georgian. And no time for Kuxnya usually means I'm leaving it here on time =D 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5047 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 250 of 364 16 July 2015 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||
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I thought you might see more of a connection with French, but it's knowing how to pronounce HC that helps with that too because the orthography is father away from French. Yeah, I am genuinely surprised how much of Papiamento I can understand, but I'm not ready for a next Creole language- quite yet- though, maybe later.
What a shame Papiamento isn't on Google Translate. The GT for HC isn't nearly as good as it is for other languages though. Still it's better than nothing. Gostei de sua dica para lembrar onde estava com os materiais nativos. Vou aproveitar disso. :) Edited by iguanamon on 16 July 2015 at 9:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6382 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 251 of 364 16 July 2015 at 4:31am | IP Logged | ||
Hadn't seen this before now :) According to my SC stats I've seen some, yes. To me the major Brazilian matches are equally epic. The only club I've tried to support so far was Internacional (I can't call it just Inter :D), when Forlán played there. The additional meaning(s) of "eu acredito" totally makes sense to me :) We have this too really. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4951 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 252 of 364 16 July 2015 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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@iguanamon: I really try to think of pronunciation, spelling and liaisons, but some words do lose me. It's a language that requires at least some previous study.
@Serpent: I wonder how you ran into a random post from my log from weeks ago. Sounds creepy =D The Estonian Textbook in Russian is working both as a gramamr review - as clear as possible, and as a graded reader. I'm still impressed at how much I can understand from the first lessons. I think if I get back to the other textbooks I used, where they expect you to learn 50 words per lesson, I still won't understand much. But this one brings me enough confidence and an amount of new words I can learn and see progress take place. The same is happening with Russian and the textbook 'I read Russian', I mean, this feeling of being exposed to n+1 content. I'm starting to learn some words that I see all the time at the other materials I use but which still haven't stuck in my mind yet. By finally learning those accessory words I will be able to focus on the ones essential to the story. I believe this is a stage that is bordering basic reading fluency. I start to feel the same about Georgian, too, but since Russian resources are of better quality (in the sense that I do get n+1 material now and not just a wide gap from textbook texts to native materials), I think I might reach this level earlier in Russian than in Georgian. I've finished one of my spiritualist books in French, the one I bought paperback from Amazon.fr . Reading my first paperback book was a unique experience. I was glad I did it when I was already at a C1 level, missing 1 word every two pages or even less. I'm starting to consolidate some tricky French-only (non-Romance cognate) verbs and nouns that I hope to make part of my active vocabulary when context arises. It was a nice experience to order from Amazon in Europe, and maybe I should extend it and buy the DVDs for Futurama in German and other German DVDs as well. Digital media is awfully expensive in Brazil so even with taxes and conversion it might be cheaper to buy them abroad, and it could also be that some DVDs are cheaper than books. For example, each season of Futurama costs 10 Euros at Amazon.de, which is less than what I payed for this book in French I just finished reading. Well, we'll see. Le plus important de tout ça, c'est que je vais enfin commencer à lire le livre 'La carte et le territoire', de Michel Houelebecq.' J'ai reçu tellement de recommandations de ce livre dans les journaux de garyb et al. que je ne peux plus m'empêcher de lire quelque chose d'actuel et qui est à la Une. Je commence demain. Comme je n'aurai pas besoin de passer trop de temps pour comprendre les messages de ce livre (c'était le contraire avec les livres de fond spiritualiste que je me suis habitué à lire ces derniers temps), j'espère que la lecture ne sera pas trop difficile. Jeg har begynt å høre til lydboken 'Norwegian Wood' på norsk. Det er sikkert litt raskere og vanskeligere enn en bok til tenåringer, men jeg la merke til at jeg begynner og forstå lange setninger selv nå jeg ikke leser i den portugisiske teksten. Jeg blir vant til språket og jeg begynner å huske noen ord jeg kunne bare gjenkjenne før. Jeg tror denne boken skal være veldig viktig til min læring av norsk, et ekte vendepunkt. Det tok meg lenger til å nå 10 sider av teksten med denne lydboken enn det pleide å ta med 'Froskeslottet', men det var ikke så lenger enn jeg hadde trodde. Hvert spor på CD-en har omtrent femti minuter, og jeg måtte høre til 4 sporer for å komme av siden 5 til siden 16, på begynnelsen av det første kappitelet. Derfor skal jeg bruke 20 minutter med å høre til denne boken i stedet for de vanlige 15 minutter. Det går bra likevel. J'ai commencé à regarder l'ancien film Les fugitives avec le jeune Gérard Depardieu. Mon fichier a des sous-titres en roumain! Ça veut dire qu'il n'y a pas de sous-titres pour moi. C'est bon, car j'ai pu constater que je comprends presque tout ce qui est dit. C'est une comédie très drôle. Enfin j'ai envie de faire attention à un film français tout le temps au lieu de naviguer ailleurs. Another record for the Georgian reading. Less than 15 minutes and I understood almost everything, except two or three words each sentence that I'd look up instantly at the translation because now I don't have much trouble joining the pieces anymore. Mi a seña mi mes un palabra nobo for dj'e libro na papiamentu, e ta 'torpe', ku na papiamentu ta nifikã 'awkward, uneasy'. 'Torpe' ta eksistí na portugés tambe, pero nos ta uzá e palabra aki mas frekuentemente den e nifikashon di vil, baho (o 'vile, base'). Yet another subtitleless part from the Russian Ugly Betty. The next one also is. I'm afraid I will have to change the strategy. Or maybe just keep doing like Georgian: the fixed resource doesn't have subtitles, while any accessory ones will do. So I have other options from the Viki app which I can watch on weekends. And maybe I should get the transcripts to 'The Intern' that people are posting at polydog. Well...how about this? It's a series, it's on Youtube, it has subtitles. Maybe that's what I need for a change, though I'm also in need of getting used to subtitles in Russian. As a matter of fact, I need double subtitles, but these had to be actual subtitles with timing, because it's not practical to look at two text windows plus the video window at the same time. The most I manage to do is to look at the video and one subtitled there plus another subtitle on a text file, like I did with my previous German films (and I don't need to anymore, so, it's a proof that it works for learning). Well, an instant alternative for double subtitles is the TEDisubs app which I try to keep for less common languages such as Georgian and Estonian. All this concern means one and only thing: I'm getting serious about Russian, it's no longer a 'crutch language' (and it's actually working as a crutch language now, as my personal best Estonian textbook is in Russian, the one I'm using now. I'm forgetting to log most of the days I watch Kuxnya. That shouldn't happen. I forgot to add it to my stats on Monday and on Tuesday, fixed now. Edited by Expugnator on 17 July 2015 at 12:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6382 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 253 of 364 17 July 2015 at 4:19am | IP Logged | ||
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Your post came up in an unrelated search :DDD
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4075 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 254 of 364 17 July 2015 at 7:06am | IP Logged | ||
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Jeg må nok spøre deg, men hvordan har du fått sånt sjeldent høyt nivå på norsk? Du har jo
kanskje et av de høyste nivåer av de som lærer norsk, både selvstudenter ogklasstudenter. Hvilke læreboker har du brukt, fremfor alt på B-nivåene? Edited by 1e4e6 on 17 July 2015 at 7:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4951 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 255 of 364 17 July 2015 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | ||
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@1e4e6: Jeg tror at du ikke forstår riktig hva nivået mitt er. Når jeg skriver her, bruker jeg Google Translate for å huske ord. JEg forstår ikke ennå det muntlige språket på serier og filmer, og jeg kjenner kanskje bare omtrent 90% av ord jeg leser i en bok. Det jeg kan forklare deg er at jeg brukte 'Learn Norwegian' som den viktigste læreboken fra nivået B1 av. På denne bøken lærte gjenommgikk jeg de vikstige grammatiske konseptene med en større og lengre mengde av eksempler. Jeg har også lest bøker med oversettelser og etterpå uten dem. Nå bruker jeg L-Ring for å bli vant til det muntlige språket, men jeg fremdeles hører samtidig ord og settninger jeg vet men ikke forstår og ord jeg ikke vet i det hele tatt. Da jeg begynnte å forstå muntlig fransk, kunne jeg allerede forstå nestent alt jeg leste på fransk. Jeg håper jeg kan bli av hjelpe. Du kan gjerne spørre mer om dette temaet. Jeg har mye som jeg skrevet i mine forrige loggene.
The day of fables are gone and now the texts at 'I read Russian' consist of short chronicles. Harder and less fun, but still good practice. Hope they don't become too long or vocabulary-intense suddenly. It went better the with Chinese reading of Dan Brown's book today. It helps that I'm practicing a lot with the reading I do in the evening, the short stories. Yesterday I even went through the story twice, once silently and the other one while listening to GT's text2speech. SOmetimes I think my Chinese vocabulary is larger than I assume it to be. I think in critical situations I could really say what I meant through replacements and circumlocutions. The most rewarding of this all is realizing I'm achieving it without the torture, the pain, the suffering of daily SRS sessions that made my language learning day a nightmare. Pendant que je regarde le film 'Les fugitifs' (à propos, il est très intéressant), je jette des coups d'oeil dans les sous-titres en roumain. Je ne comprends presque rien, mais ça n'empêche que je subisse du wanderlust pour cette langue. J'ai déjà essayé de l'apprendre il y a dix ans ou plus, mais je n'ai pas fait des progrès. Quoi que ce soit, il n'est pas encore le temps pour le roumain. Il faut d'abord continuer avec l'italien jusqu'au niveau avancé, comme le français, et ensuite il y aura encore l'espagnol et l'esperanto. I decided to switch to the Russian series that has subtitles on Youtube, Wind in the face. I will keep this 'Don't be born a beauty' for a further stage. Even though I can already understand some scenes, I'm sure I'm going to learn much more if I have the English subtitles, which will allow me to interpret the Russian right away and thus I am going to effectively learn many more lines. This is for the weekdays. At weekends I will try to watch what fits better, either Interny or Tatyana'a Day. Today at Colloquial Uzbek I figured out the word for money, pul, sounds exactly like the Georgian one, ფული (puli with an aspirated p). Now I'm more schooled, so I went right away for Persian, which is پول (pul). The only reason the Georgian one ends with an 'i' is that this 'i' is the Georgian nominative, nothing else. From all the Romance languages I've studied so far, and from all other languages, Italian has the closest equivalence to Portuguese in terms of subjunctive usage, namely which parts of the subordinate clause go into indicative or conditional or subjunctive. Spanish comes at a distant close, and I may even think Georgian is actually closer than Spanish. On the other hand, French lines up with Portuguese when it comes to using 'tout le monde/todo o mundo' to mean everybody, and Italian doesn't and rather stays with 'tutti'. I've seen the word 'nevvero' for the first time. I wonder how often it is used, in terms of register. 'Não é verdade' is most often shortened to 'não é?' or just 'né', while French has 'n'est-ce pas' as default with 'vrai' totally gone. Now, for Italian, is 'nevvero' usable at whichever register or just the written language? Still on the Russian videos chapter: I brought my newest iPad here today and, as expected, I can watch Tatyana's Day from Viki's app (I can't watch them from the site at the computer due to the video block). That could be a solution, but I'm keeping the new tablet from here for the time being. For much more I resisted the temptation (the tedisubs episode). As for Kuxnya, today went fine apart from a few moments of uncomprehension. At these times, paying attention to the Georgian audio is more helpful than trying to make sense out of Tarzan-like English translations from Russian. I took some time to read the forum, only collective topics. Still have to catch up with other people's logs. So, even though I finished all my tasks earlier, I didn't do much more in terms of output. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4951 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 256 of 364 22 July 2015 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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(copying from the alternative site, originally posted at Jul 19th)
I am at my hometown for this week. The 14-hour bus trip to here turned into 16 due to the traffic jam at the first day of school holidays. I didn't do much reading as expected during the trip, only read 20 pages in Russian. I couldn't read in Georgian because the app from the Georgian bookstore requires an internet connection for downloading the books. In the evening I downloaded the book I wanted to read, so that it made 20 pages in Russian and 17 in Georgian yesterday, and 55 in Russian and 42 in Georgian the whole week. Comfortable enough for my SC plans of reaching a half challenge. I am going to keep reading today because I don't know how the week is going to be here in terms of study time. Even though my mom stays out of home the whole day as she works at a neighboring town and has to wake up at 4 am, I still want to take some rest with less stress. I've reinstalled the NRK app now that there are enough series available without a VPN. Plus there is Viki in Russian. Now I'm going to get Interny. I want to have fun watching comprehensible input stuff and I want to use the computer (my mom's laptop) as little as possible because the screen is smaller, the device is slower and I have to share it with dad. Even the parallel reading I plan to do by using the two tablets, one open at each one of the translations for the books I'm reading. (same as above, posted in July 20th) My first Estonian lesson at a slower, smaller computer and with a longer text went out quite smoothly! I am really getting graded comprehensible input from this textbook, and I couldn't feel better about it. Estonian is certainly the most fun language to learn. I am still not sure whether it's French or Norwegian my favorite foreign language, but Estonian is by far the one I enjoy the most learning. Finished part I of 'I read Russian'. Part II is supposed to take care of the 300-400 words already introduced at part I and add up 600-800 more. Let's see how it goes. I assume my vocabulary in Russian is already larger than 1000 words, but I still don't know some very frequent words and I hope it gets better as it already is. I read the final text of part I in no time. I finished the story '922 people liked this', translated from Dutch, and now I'm going to read the final story in Georgian from citybooks, the other one by Lasha Bugadze. 'Norwegian Wood' is far more difficult to understand than the previous novel. Sometimes I lose full sentences. Other times I do understand the Norwegian but can't relate it to the text in Portuguese. It seems the audiobook is abridged at those cases. The difference is more evident when it comes to reading Chinese. It is less oif a problem now that I'm usually reading all the Chinese before the translation, but even so Pera-pera loads very slowly from one character to another. The low screen resolution also makes it a pain to read the characters. In spite of that, or maybe because of that, I could pay more attention to what I read and understood almost everything with Pera-pera - and sometimes totally skipping it - before switching to the Portuguese translation. So, I finished 'Modern Mandarin Chinese: a Practical Grammar' (the grammar book; there is still the workbook). It happened all of a sudden, as the page numbers were set to real page numbers and I thought there were still 40 pages left. I am going to write a review when I finish the workbook as well. I'm happy I decided to switch to 'Wind in the Face' and let go of the ' Russian Ugly Betty'. 'Wind in the Face' is available on Youtube and thus can be accessed anywhere, and it has English subtitles. I still haven't given up on watching video intensively with Russian subtitles. Will probably do so with Interny and the transcripts from the polydog forum. Either at the end of the day, as another post-schedule activity, or at weekends. After all, watching videos with subtitles in L2 and looking words up intensively is what works best for me. So, the first day of holidays turned out successfully. I could finish my schedule and could still spend time with my family. I even went to the gym in the morning. Hope I can repeat all tomorrow. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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