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Radioclare’s tac log 2015 (*jäŋe/*ledús) | ||
Tags: Macedonian | Serbian | Serbo-Croatian | Croatian | Esperanto | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 249 of 292 02 July 2015 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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These are fantastic results though. (And as I was writing the post, you tweeted about achieving Memrise zero too!)
There's still lots of time to reach B2 :) Would you say you're B2 passively yet? From my perspective, and comparing to myself, I think you might have reached B2 in reading already last year, and with Budva you've got much closer to B2 in listening (if you're not already there). BTW, the consensus appears to be that basic fluency is passive B2 and active B1 :) Maybe some of your goals on the path to B2 were not quite right/needed. For example it seems like you've significantly improved your grammatical accuracy through lang-8, which isn't reflected in your list(s), but which is very important. And there's nothing bad about not having goals :) Have you considered doing more GLOSS lessons btw? There's comprehensible input (always with audio), grammar notes and suggested writing topics :) Edited by Serpent on 02 July 2015 at 9:18pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| basica Senior Member Australia Joined 3318 days ago 157 posts - 269 votes Studies: Serbian | Message 250 of 292 03 July 2015 at 2:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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I would agree with Serpent in that if you're able to follow along to a show and read
books, that's a pretty strong indicator of B2 abilities more than B1. I think you've done quite well so far, but obviously at these higher levels it becomes harder to notice progress :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4948 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 251 of 292 03 July 2015 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You've reached almost all of your goals, and that's impressive! I couldn't agree more with Serpent and basica that you're around basic fluency now, because from what we can infer you are already at a B2 level for listening/reading and B1 active. I can't write in my B1 languages as much as you write in Croatian, my brain would explode if I tried! For much less than you've done with Croatian other people in this forum claim to speak one new language every fortnight.
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| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4365 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 252 of 292 03 July 2015 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you guys, you are all a lot more positive than me :) :)
Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations of how "fluent" I should be at each CEFR level! I do really struggle with assessing where I am on the scale; I've never taken a CEFR exam in any language and I think perhaps you need to be quite a confident person to assess your own abilities against the grid. I definitely think I have reached the B1 definitions of listening and reading. The spoken interaction definition says "I can deal with most situations likely to arise when travelling in an area where the language is spoken" and I think that after my experiences in Montenegro and Serbia last summer I can definitely tick that bit :) But the definition continues by saying "I can enter unprepared into conversation on topics that are familiar, of personal interest or pertinent to everyday life" and I'm not convinced I can tick that; I can discuss those things if I give them some advance thought, but possibly not "unprepared". But then to be quite frank I don't normally launch "unprepared" into conversations with strangers in English either... I think I'm okay on spoken production and writing for B1, although again I don't think I could do something like narrate the plot of a book "unprepared". I've just read the B2 definitions and I think I do meet bits of them, but not others. I can understand most TV news and current affairs programmes, or if I can't it's my lack of knowledge of Croatian politics which is hampering me and not the language :D I'm not sure whether I can follow extended speeches/lectures with complex lines of argument, because I've never listened to any. I can definitely read news articles, and do so every day; that's something which has got to the level of being actively enjoyable for me now, rather than a chore. Can I understand "contemporary literary prose"? I'm not sure; I can definitely understand contemporary trashy fiction without too many problems, but (much as I love Twilight!) I don't think anything I've read during the Super Challenge merits the title "literary" prose... Getting too hung up on CEFR levels probably isn't productive, especially given that I can't figure out if it's even possible to take a CEFR exam in Croatian. I guess when I said I wanted to be "B2" by the end of the year, I meant I wanted to be able to express myself confidently and without major hesitation, and I still feel like I'm a long way away from that. Serpent - GLOSS is on my list of things I feel guilty for not doing more of :D When I first started learning Croatian I used to moan a lot about how few resources there were in comparison to those available for people learning a major European language like French (for example!). But as time has passed I've realised that I haven't even succeeded in fully utilising the resources which are available, never mind wishing that there were more! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 253 of 292 04 July 2015 at 12:30am | IP Logged | |||||
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CEFR is more of a guideline, something more specific than "I can understand 80% of a regular newspaper and can hold regular conversations about any topic" :) I'm sure not everyone with basic fluency would pass CEFR exams with no preparation. For example I think here on HTLAL we tolerate more grammar fails.
Annette has passed B1 at some language school in Croatia. AFAIU they organized it specially for her, at the end of her stay (and even took her general work into account, not just the exam itself). Definitely seems like it's nothing like the conveyor of Spanish/French/German exams :D She can probably tell you more about it :) Vrata Rima definitely didn't sound like trashy fiction ;D And I'm sure you'd understand more now than when you first read this :P Really, I've kinda accepted that I won't understand Budva as well as you do by season 3. There's just so much vocabulary that goes past me because I've read very few books. (I'm fine with it, since I love listening early on, and I find that Budva has made reading easier :D) You can't imagine the sort of basic words I'm still picking up :D Edited by Serpent on 04 July 2015 at 12:40am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4365 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 254 of 292 04 July 2015 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh that's true, I forgot that Annette had done the exam. I must ask her about it :) I
know where it is she went to do the course, but their website is extremely vague about exams. If you could just take an exam without attending the language course I would probably try to arrange to do it at some point when I'm passing through Zagreb, but I don't have enough annual leave to attend a course there (much as I would love to!) You are right about 'Vrata Rima', Serpent - it was quite difficult! I will have to locate it on my bookshelf and see whether it seems any easier now... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| solocricket Tetraglot Groupie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3458 days ago 68 posts - 106 votes Speaks: English*, French, Italian, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Icelandic, Korean, Polish | Message 255 of 292 04 July 2015 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, I've had that experience with Icelandic, but some of the available resources are quite dull, so I still don't use them.... I'm not familiar with GLOSS, so I'm not sure if it's the same thing-- it might be better to stick with things that are fun and interesting for you :D 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Radioclare Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom timeofftakeoff.com Joined 4365 days ago 689 posts - 1119 votes Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto Studies: Croatian, Serbian, Macedonian | Message 256 of 292 04 July 2015 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
I've managed two days in a row of writing in Croatian now, which is a start :)
I'm particularly proud of Friday's effort, although it had more mistakes in it than Thursday's, because I wasn't entirely sober when I wrote it ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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