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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4651 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 1 of 6 10 January 2015 at 5:29pm | IP Logged |
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Hi there, I was wondering if I could get some feedback about my language learning
endeavor. I have already narrowed down the languages I want to learn to a maximum of eight (besides my mother tongue). The question is rather, what kind of proficiency should I aim for? what do you think is realistically doable? Here's the situation: English (I would say I'm around C1 in most areas, but it's getting rusty) Finnish (not sure about my level, but probably B2-C1) German (struggling right now to remember stuff after a long pause - maybe A2-B1) Swedish (very easy thus far, but I haven't done much either - maybe A2) My goal is to achieve high proficiency in the above mentioned languages (say, be able to understand almost anything and speak with fluency, no matter the topic and also be able to use the language in professional contexts). The next four languages are: Japanese Icelandic French Russian I would be happy if I could achieve some sort of tourist level in all of them, perhaps some kind of A2-B1, just to get by in their respective countries. I also don't mind if it takes a long time to learn these. Could this be done or should they be relegated to passive knowledge in order to make time for the main languages? Right now I have free time, but things might get complicated in the future (family and other activities). At the end of the day, it's all my decision and my own project, but it would be nice to hear your comments. Edited by caam_imt on 10 January 2015 at 10:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6371 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 2 of 6 10 January 2015 at 6:53pm | IP Logged |
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It's certainly realistic, depending on your time plan. Personally, I wouldn't worry that much about it. Choose what language you want to study next and focus on that until you're at a level you feel good about, then pick another one. These kinds of grand plans tend to have little value. Who knows, by the time you've recuperated your German you might be dying to learn Thai.
That said, depending on your definition of "high proficiency", your goal might be a bit unrealistic. If you're talking about C2 in four foreign languages, then that's going to take a LOT of work and dedication, and unless you're going to use all of them professionally, it'll probably not be worth it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 4848 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 3 of 6 10 January 2015 at 8:40pm | IP Logged |
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If you've already studied four foreign languages, consider the average amount of time you've spent studying each
one. Let's call that time T. Since you've gained some language learning experience, you can expect the next four languages to reach comparable levels in somewhat less than time T. Maybe a rough estimate could be 2/3 T. However, Japanese is likely to be more difficult for you than what you've already studied, so let's guess that Japanese will take 2*T time to reach the same levels as what you've studied. So, I imagine to get all eight languages within the range of proficiencies you have with your four, it'll take about as much additional time as you've already put into language learning. If you really put in a lot of effort over many years, there's no reason why you can't get C1+ level in all those languages. You did it in English, and you can do it again. But that would take a lot of study and frequent "maintenance" of all the languages. Be honest with yourself about whether you're willing to do this. If you consider you English to be "rusty," be aware that you'll have even fewer opportunities to use the other languages, and will have to seek them out, or else your abilities will gradually decay. As for unreasonable goals, I would say that would include becoming functionally equivalent to a native speaker in all those languages. Depending on the definition, it may be the case that no one has ever quite done that. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6386 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 4 of 6 10 January 2015 at 11:08pm | IP Logged |
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Are you in Finland or Mexico now? And what are your plans for the future? Russian and Icelandic are definitely more accessible from Finland, but Icelandic may be easier when you've improved your Swedish and German.
Also, what timeframe are you talking about? The most complicated case is undoubtedly Japanese. How strong is your interest? Is it important for you in terms of learning something non-European? Basically, if you don't reach a decent level now, it will be the best candidate to drop if you have to choose. Visiting St Petersburg, Iceland or taking your future kids to Disneyland will always be easier than visiting Japan. And especially if you want to practice speaking, it would be hard to arrange a Skype session given the timezone differences. The methods are also important. French would give you access to a large amount of high quality materials, most notably Assimil. If you start Japanese with something like Heisig/RTK or another established method involving SRS, you can keep doing your repetitions even through busy times... or can you? On the other hand, at least French and Icelandic can be dropped and picked back up depending on your opportunities. In what feels like a similar situation, I opted for getting started with nearly all languages that interested me asap, and gradually I added some related languages that aren't quite as important. My Spanish ended up becoming better than most languages from my "main" list, heh. But first I learned Finnish, because I couldn't live without it. I never dropped my other languages but after starting Finnish, I relied on my lyceum to keep improving my English, German and Latin. If you have such a language, now is your time, I think (at least if you are in Finland). Do you love German or maybe even Swedish? Or are you perhaps intimidated by Japanese but absolutely love it? Go for it. And there's no need to stop at B1 either. One more thing is that actually a "tourist level" is easier than passive-only learning, at least assuming you actually want to read books and consume media. And SRS can help you keep small snippets of knowledge alive, if you choose to learn the touristy stuff in advance without actually having any travel plans. Is it worth it, though?.. If you keep improving, you can maintain your knowledge much more easily, especially in your IE languages. Also, in your case I think you're focusing too much on the CEFR scale. If we go by the HTLAL system, "advanced fluency" in Finnish, Swedish, German and French certainly seems doable. (and when you reach this level, don't worry too much about improving further. there's always more to learn) Or you can set your custom goals. You can make French a mostly passive language but also learn the touristy stuff well, perhaps with some narrow areas at a more advanced level. This would be more like basic fluency. (Your French seems like my Spanish - you don't necessarily like it as much as other languages, but it's simply easier to improve because there are so many materials etc) If you live abroad, you should also take your native language into account. Will you be upset if you find it getting slightly rusty? Or is that okay if it allows you to learn more languages? (BTW, if I ever move to Finland like I want to, I don't think I'll actively maintain my Russian. I'll be sure to read in my Slavic languages regularly though, and maybe be more okay with Russian parallel texts or dictionaries instead of L2-L3 ones. So in your case French might maybe help with that, too? And Spanish-based materials make more sense to use for French) Finally, it all boils down to what kind of lifestyle changes you are ready to make, and how a family etc would affect them. Decide what you enjoy more - geeky learning activities or books/media. Above all, be honest to yourself. Will you want to do some Icelandic or Russian when you can read a book in German or Swedish? Icelandic and Japanese are going to be tough for finding native materials, and Russian may not be easy for finding them legally ;) Also, do you commute/drive? The main challenges are being flexible and finding the time. Can you learn well with audio-only materials? And the bottom line... try not to plan too much. If you're seeking the comfort of knowing that you'll start in 2017, just start now. (maybe apart from Icelandic) Solve specific problems. Set manageable goals. Don't feel bad if you don't reach some of your more general goals, as long as overall you're on track. Always think of your long-term self, but don't deprive the current one of a fun adventure either. Edited by Serpent on 10 January 2015 at 11:11pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4798 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 5 of 6 11 January 2015 at 7:04pm | IP Logged |
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Everything is realistic if you put in the time. You have obviously learnt some ways
that work for you. Now you only need to apply the knowledge on the weaker languages as well. As for what to choose, I would follow your heart, if I were you. You have the immediate usefulness totally covered by Spanish+English, so take what you love. I would recommend French as it is awesome to have such a discount in a new language thanks to already knowing a related one but that is just me. If Japanese is what interests you the most, or any other, than it is decided, I guess. Japanese may be tough for finding some kinds of material, as Serpent says, but by far not as difficult as Icelandic. Russian is easy, for example due to expat communities quite everywhere in the world. French is easy as well. I second Serpent's recommendation to make goals you want. You don't need to struggle for a specific cefr level or even feel your goals to be too low. Plans can always change and you will just adapt. Just have fun and results will eventually come as well. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4651 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 6 of 6 11 January 2015 at 11:41pm | IP Logged |
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@Serpent: Wow! your comments are really insightful, thanks for the detailed response!
I'm right now in Finland and I plan to stay here indefinitely (unless a major life changing event happens). Thanks also for the links, very interesting info. @ Ari & robarb: thanks for your comments. As to my definition of "high proficiency", I think C1 level would be enough. C2/native-like level (not necessarily the same as you know) seems to be too much, so I'm not aiming for that in all of my main languages (at most only in one). @ Cavesa: French has lingered in my mind for a long time. Thanks for your input! Some more comments in case you want to know: It seems all of you are wondering about Japanese. I agree about its complexity, but I have no hurries. Since there is so much to do, I figured I could focus on tiny bits at a time, always in the background, making space for the more important languages. If it takes 10 years (or more) to reach my goals in Japanese, so be it. Additionally, it interests me more than French or Russian, mostly because of video games and the local culture. About Icelandic, I visited Iceland not too long ago and I fell in love with the country. The cities are very nice, the nature is breathtaking and Scandinavian folklore is extremely enticing. I agree with the lack of material though, it will be a tough one.. I don't really have a passion for Russian or French, but in their own areas they can be quite useful and open up doors to quality material, be it language related or not. I also like a lot France and Belgium, and hope to visit again Russia at some point (and Kazakhstan too). Thanks again for your comments, I'll try not to plan that much and just go at it. Edited by caam_imt on 11 January 2015 at 11:42pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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