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Bachelor of Languages worth it for me? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5321 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 38 29 January 2015 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Well, flip it around. Let's imagine that you're on the hiring committee in an Australian hospital, and a nurse applies from France. Let's say he has French nursing training, and a degree in English as a foreign language from a French university. So here are my questions: 1. How much faith do you put in an English degree from a French university? Would you instead mostly rely on your conversations with the candidate during the interview? Would you be more willing to invite somebody in for an interview if they had attended nursing courses in Australia? What about if they had previously worked in an English-speaking environment? 2. If your hospital requires an official English certificate, do they accept certificates given by French organizations? If not, whose certificates will they accept? When I ask myself these questions, I feel that an English degree from a French university wouldn't be terribly convincing. But somebody who had solid professional skills, and who could obviously function in English? That would seem like a pretty good bet. As Khaztumoto has pointed out, if you can produce a Japanese resume with no mistakes and handle an hour-long interview with no major problems, most places won't care about what language certificates you've got. Most small to medium employers don't even know the names of language certification exams. Anyway, here are some links: - Infirmières étrangères souhaitant venir travailler en France. It looks like Australian nurses are recognized by the UK, and that recognition can be transferred to France. If that fails, it's apparently possible to go through a special procedure and see if your certificates and degrees can be transferred. See the article for details. - Infirmière aux USA, un statut de liberté ! A nice article about a French nurse who moved to the United States. If you work backwards from what she says about the US, you can figure out some interesting things about the French nursing system. - Médecins sans frontières. If you speak French and English, and you have any kind of nursing qualifications, you might be able to volunteer for MSF. Apparently they're very happy to get their hands on bilingual volunteers. And active MSF volunteers go to lots of different places, and help a lot of people. See their volunteer's blogs for lots of stories. - American Hospital of Paris. This is a very high-end, professional hospital in Paris. I was actually treated there once for an arm injury, and I was quite impressed. I mean, you'd probably spend some your time caring for deposed dictators and whatnot, but it certainly looked like a nice hospital, and the doctor actually had time to provide very good care. (And it cost no more than a US emergency room.) But honestly, some of this advice is colored by my personal learning style: I prefer to throw myself into situations where I need the language, and then struggle to adapt. Step-by-step courses take far too long, and very few of them guarantee useful results. (The exception are high-end immersion courses, which are expensive.) And so if I want to improve my academic French, my first impulse isn't to look for an "Academic French" course at a local university—rather, my first impulse is to look for an online university course for native French speakers, and to try to keep up. Once you reach a solid B1, there's a lot to be said for studying other subjects using your L2. If you're interested in translation, I'd definitely look for some kind of "value added" specialty where quality and domain knowledge matter a lot. Low-end translation is under continual pressure from computer translation and humans assisted by specialized software, and I imagine things will be even rougher in 10 years, especially for a language pair like French/English. I don't know much about the translation industry, but I do know something about the software tools, and I suspect that they're going to continue to exert massive pressure on low-end translation markets. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5265 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 10 of 38 30 January 2015 at 5:56am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hi James29, Thanks for replying. I'm not sure if you understood correctly or whether I'm understanding your terminology incorrectly. I already have a degree in nursing. This isn't something I was potentially looking at doing in the future as as I already have a BA in nursing. Perhaps you meant pursue the nursing in France and get my BA recognized there? With regards to strangers/people I know providing advice. That's a very sensible suggestion. The one person who know's me best with regards to weighing up decisions is my wife. We've had numerous discussions regarding my/our future path over recent years as and recently and it certainly has helped. I thought I'd 'air' my thoughts on here as it would provide different food for thought and responses, and further insight to the value of doing a language degree within the framework of moving to France. All that has occurred here and I'm very grateful for those who have taken the time kindly reply. I also seem to be leaning towards your suggestion of continuing self study of languages. I really do enjoy it and from what yourself and others have pointed out, doing a language degree in Australia may not amount to much. I can certify my own levels via exams and if I really want to do sth in say French, or Spanish, i'm probably best off doing this in country, not here. Also it might be more logical to simply self study as I am and do some other kind of course in French once settled down over there. There's a lot of flexibility in self study and I'm very good now at remaining motivated. Then utilizing what I already have (nursing) does make sense. I'll just make arrangements perhaps long term to potentially move out of nursing in the twilight of my career (perhaps into natural therapies of some kind, not necessarily languages). Anyway that's my current line of thought :) Thanks again James29 PM 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5265 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 11 of 38 30 January 2015 at 7:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'd not necessarily feel as confident about a potential French employee with an English degree from France, as opposed to a French person with an English language degree from the UK, US, Canada, NZ, Ireland, or Australia. From a nursing perspective I would not give two hoots about an English language degree, I'd be looking entirely at their nursing background and of course they would have had to pass an English language test of some kind that is recognized in Australia. To be clear though, I never meant to do a language degree in order to do nursing overseas. I was intersted in doing a languages BA just out of pure interest. But clearly you demonstrate that this would not really amount to much in terms of the plan to live in France. However it would bring enjoyment, but it would work against the goal of getting to France. Thus I'd be better off on just getting to France and studying on my own. Not to get off track too much though, I understand your point emk and it is something I have considered before, and I agree you're absolutely right, I should consider this more than I have been. Your logic is impeccable. This degree here in Australia studying French and another/other language(s) would theoretically not amount to much in terms of attaining my goals and have a selling point for gaining employment in France. As James29 said think of it in terms of opening doors, you're right emk, this would not open that many.
I do not know the answer to this one exactly, but if it goes anything like other major languages, passing a specific level of an exam in the given language (B2,C1 level for eg) would suffice no matter where it was done in the world, provided it's the international standard provider of the exam (eg Alliance Française for French B2/C1 exam). A language exam would be irrelevant. The conversational level evidenced in an interview backed up by the required exam pass would suffice. But again I must point out that I was interested in doing a language BA in order to get into nursing, rather I was interested in doing this outright as a personal interest. Yet again tho, I see your point and I totally agree with it. The languages BA done in Australia would not open any doors in this respect.
This makes perfect sense emk. Although I'd add that despite some workplaces not caring about the language certificates, some require them by law. When my wife was offered a position in Rotterdam in nursing they said we can see you can speak some Dutch but we want to employ you anyway despite your Dutch not being at a higher level, as we don't mind speaking English until you get your Dutch up to a higher professional level, we just need to check with human resources. Low and behold they could not hire her as she had not passed a B2 Dutch language exam (wouldn't matter where it was taken). I know I'm getting off track. Had she clearly illustrated a high level of Dutch tho, they'd still need to see the certificate for official records. Again I agree, language BA not required. Again it wasn't my aim to do a language degree to open nursing doors. It was my aim to do this out of enjoyment or to gain employment in the language field. You're right though, in many places just producing a decent CV and getting through a decent interview without issue would be received very well in the eyes of the employers.
I have visited this site on numerous occasions. To my understanding foreign nurses wishing to nurse in France have two options - have their qualifications formerly assessed as Australian nursing qualifications are not recognized without this process. Further education is likely to be required. Just because they are recognized in the UK (actually a short-ish course of some sort is required there from recollection) does not mean France will recognize it at all. But the 2nd path- those with EU citizenship from another member state but have a degree from another non EU country can have their qualifications recognized in France IF the EU country of the person holding the relevant citizenship recognizes the qualifications. Thus, judging by this rule, as I have a Dutch p'port I'd need to have my qualifications recognzed in the Netherlands. This would mean (I am not certain) that I'd need to pass a Dutch B2 exam and have my qualifications assessed by the relevant Dutch authority. I believe I would have to do the Dutch B2 exam as you cannot get onto the nursing register in the Netherlands without jumping through all these hoops. THEN I could nurse in France. The way I interpret the rule is that I can't go to the UK as I don't hold a UK passport (I could go there but it wouldn't help me get into France), as I have to have those qualifications recognizes in the country in which I hold the passport. If i'm incorrectly interpreting the rule but am not sure, it's a large gamble to relocate to the UK on the off chance it helps me get into France. Then add to this that i'm not overly satisfied with the profession these days. Why then would I want to work in a country in which Nursing ratio's a LOT heavier than here in the state of Victoria, Australia. I would feel very very dissatisfied. Still I know what some ppl might be thinking, if I want to open doors and get into France then perhaps I need to put up with these downsides. Fair point, a point which I tend to agree with in part depending what my other options are.... One of which is Switzerland. The working conditions in the French speaking cantons (as opposed to France itself) are much better.
I read over this one, thanks emk. Interesting stuff. I have read similar blogs/articles on other nurses who are French and have gone to work in Geneva (better conditions apparently, this is where I found more information on the conditions in France when comparing the two), French Polynesia & New Caledonia, and Australia (more very relevant comparisons- not inviting working conditions for an Aussie nurse in France). I did however read some favourable comparisons of UK nurses working in France so it's not all bad, apparently.
It is something I've considered but probably not that viable as my wife and child may not be able to tag along to these places, and i'm particularly interested in Francophone Europe. Nevertheless I aim to read over this information you have provided. Thanks :)
I have also read about this American Hospital of Paris. I'll check out the link you provided. It's a relevant option :)
Despite being a course fiend, I can certainly relate to this, When I am in the environment I love being in the 'deep end' and I love my courses. You are right, there is a lot to be said for studying other subject using L2. I've found this to be true even in reading things online that are simply where my interests lie. Due to this I have considered doing a cours in naturopathy in French and I began looking into this recently. I found an excellent course out of Québec which offers materials in English or French (i'd be happy to pay more to get both provided). I stopped researching as I found I would need to improve my language further before considering such a course, and the recognition of naturopaths in other countries (ie their corresponding education levels) differs considerably. Not to mention it may or may nor necessarily open many doors. Imagine a Québec educated Australian arriving in France to be a naturopath. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Interesting points again emk. Doing medical translation is probably my most likely avenue were I to go down this path. That is unlikely (going down this path) as it's appearing too competitive and not worth the effort. The way I see it I may need to have a PhD in linguistics from a renowned university with some astounding experience with my languages. I'm not suggesting I shut this door, but I at least need to get a LOT better before I consider higher end translation. That quite frankly is a LONG way off and not really viable for the move to France. Sorry if I have been a little repetitive emk at times. I really appreciate your input here. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're an extremely helpful individual, cheers mate :) PM 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| liam.pike1 Groupie Australia Joined 3543 days ago 84 posts - 122 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Esperanto, French | Message 12 of 38 30 January 2015 at 7:30am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Aussie pride!
Well, I'm about to start uni @ U Syd, and I'm doing French as a major as part of my Arts degree. I'll let you know how useful I find the course vs self-studying (as I'm currently doing and will continue to do). I suspect that, in your case, it won't really be worth doing a whole degree. However, I don't know anything about this stuff. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5265 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 13 of 38 30 January 2015 at 10:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Thanks Liam! And good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5025 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 14 of 38 30 January 2015 at 11:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Just wanted to pipe up again. My daughter is doing a degree to become a Paramedic and after speaking with her it occurred to me there may be another option you might consider. Cross-training.
If you are tired of being a nurse, but have all those qualifications it might be possible to do a lateral jump into some other section of the medical field. You could do the training for this jump in France and make the transition directly into the health care system there. Hypothetically, say you were going to cross-train into the field of operating room technician (Technicien(ne) en salle d'opération). You could apply for the course in Paris and hopefully a lot of your degree would be transferable. After completing the course your French would be fluent, and with a French degree one would assume you could go directly into work in France or elsewhere in the EU. Kills two birds with one stone, gets you out of nursing, but could cut down the amount of time required to shift to another country. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Arnaud25 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 3631 days ago 129 posts - 235 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Russian | Message 15 of 38 30 January 2015 at 11:49am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I've been following the thread, a lot has been said.
For me, your project is unrealistic. - You have to understand that speaking french is nothing: a lot of emigrants coming from Africa speak french probably as well as you and you'll be in concurrence with them to find a job. If you don't have a good diploma + experience, you can directly send your resume to McDonald's. - The condition of life in big cities in France are difficult because of the price of flats: near Paris, it's impossible to find something decent under 700 or 800 euros per month: it's really expensive and a major problem for a lot of people. The concurrence is terrible and money is not enough: you need a tons of paperwork, etc. France is the country of paperwork, you also have to take that into consideration. - Age: you're 38 y.o: on the work french market, it's old: you have to know that after 45 y.o it's almost impossible to find work (except if you create your own business, very difficult with the tax system in France, or if you have a special talent). That's the way it works here, unfortunately. The life in Australia is probably better than in France currently, really, you should really think twice and have a good B plan before trying something. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| eyðimörk Triglot Senior Member France goo.gl/aT4FY7 Joined 3888 days ago 490 posts - 1158 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French Studies: Breton, Italian | Message 16 of 38 30 January 2015 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'm no tax lawyer, but I am a sole business owner and an immigrant with a degree that doesn't make much sense in France, and depending on your income, your type of business, etc. you can be taxed as an individual rather than a business, making running a business in France approximately a thousand times simpler. You can even run a SARL in France and get around business taxes, if you're doing it under the right conditions (at least two owners who are closely related). Edit: If you don't make a whole lot of money straight away, most small businesses can operate under the auto-entrepreneur scheme which takes approximately one hour to set up online. When you start making good money you'll need to upgrade to a different kind of business, though, but you can upgrade to something else that's outside of the business tax system. Edited by eyðimörk on 30 January 2015 at 1:34pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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