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Easiest "difficult" language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Suzumiya Diglot Groupie VenezuelaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4675 days ago 43 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 25 of 35 11 January 2017 at 2:58am | IP Logged | ||
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German has a reputation for being ''hard''. I'm sure you've heard of the phrase ''Life is too short to learn German''. What scares many English speakers is the many unfamiliar words as well as the apparent difficult sounds German has. German is a lot easier than people think. The only problem you have to deal with is the randomness of the plural form and the gender of many words. The grammar itself isn't really hard, pronunciation isn't, either, but, do us a favor and try your best to get the German R right; German pronounced with the English R is sacrilege xD. The German syntax can be a pain in the ass sometimes, but you'll get used to it pretty soon. One of the usual complaints about German is its cases. I fail to see how German cases can be hard, they're a total joke. You only decline the articles (and adjectives with copy & paste patterns) and add a lousy N to the dative plural of nouns. Some nouns belong to the so called N-Deklination, so you have to keep an eye on very few nouns. If anyone complaints about German cases, kindly let them know of the existence of Latin, Greek, Icelandic, Russian (or any Slavic language but Bulgarian and Macedonian), Hungarian, Basque, etc.
Russian too has a reputation for being hard, it's a lot easier to learn than people think. Polish, on the other hand, is indeed hard for an English speaker. Edited by Suzumiya on 11 January 2017 at 2:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5090 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 26 of 35 11 February 2017 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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For me, it's Mandarin.
Once you realize - as a European - that you've been using tones all of your life, but just differently, then these become very easy to absorb. And then there's nothing hard left about the language. The simplistic grammar makes it very friendly to learn. I started my Asian journey with Japanese, thinking it would be the easiest (Asian language) because of the lack of tones, while being afraid of Chinese for the same reason. But boy was I wrong. Japanese turned out to be as difficult as advertised. One thing that I might underestimate the significance of is that my native Polish happens to have all the sounds there are in Mandarin, so that Mandarin pronunciation is literally a non-existing problem.
I'm sure the only English speakers who complain at German having many unfamiliar words or difficult sounds are those who have never tackled any other language [beyond the Germanic/Romance safety zone for anglophones]. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| rinnymcphee Pentaglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 3315 days ago 1 posts - 1 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, Mandarin, Croatian, Serbian Studies: Toki Pona, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 27 of 35 02 March 2017 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | ||
I totally agree with you on this one. I had built up Mandarin to be the impossible language to learn and it really isn't. Like you say, once the tones are realised to be nothing alien, you can soon get to grips with the grammar. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Zé do Rock Newbie Brazil zedorock.net Joined 2122 days ago 4 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English | Message 28 of 35 10 July 2018 at 11:35am | IP Logged | ||
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Hi, i'm new here. I'll write my messages in two blocks, the first one in the 5
languages i know, going gradually through spelling reforms, or alternately in the 5 languages evolving to europano, a language i created - i'm thinking of changing the name of it, i thought of europidgin but too many people dont know what it means. The second block is written in normal English, for all the people who dont like reformed spelling or languages being "distorted". At the beginning it will be hardly noticeable, but later you'll see... I hope this is OK here... Reformado: Eu acho o alemao extremamente difícil pra falar perfeitamente, e muitos alemaes tem problemas com ele - eu ja passei mais de 20 anos aqui e ainda fasso erros. Aber es is am ende relativ leicht zu kommunizieren, keiner hat probleme was zu verstehen wenn jemand den falschen artikel oder ein dativ-N or -R vergisst, viele merken es gar nich. I wrote a book without cases and people had rarely problems with it. Evidement il y a encore des autres problèmes, comme les 10 fassons differentes de former le pluriel, mais aussi ici, si on ajoute simplement un E, les gens vont le comprendre parfaitement. La pronunciación a veces es dificil por causa de los grupos de consonantes, pero ellos raramente son difíciles para la gente que habla inglés, y la proporcióon de vocales y consonantes pronunciadas es la misma que del inglés americano. O alemao tem 3 sons que sao problematicos para a maioria dos europeus, mas o inglês tem 5. Die orthografie is nich perfekt, aber natürlich viel leichter als die englische. The vocabulary isnt really difficult for English speakers: in a running text, 40% of the words have a clear similarity (more than 50%), 40% at least some similarity (less than 50%), and less than 20% of the words are completely different. English: I think it is extremely difficult to speak German perfectly, and even many Germans have problems with it - i'v been living in Germany for more than 20 years and still i make mistakes. But it is easy to communicate in it - after all, nobody has problems understanding it if you use the wrong article or forget a case-N or a case-R in the end of the word, most people dont even realize it. I wrote a book without cases and people had rarely problems with it. Of course there are still other problems, like the 10 random ways to make the plural, but again, if you just add an E, people understand it perfectly. The pronunciation is sometimes difficult because of some consonant clusters, but they are rarely consonant clusters English speakers would have problems with, and the proportion of uttered vowels and consonants is the same as in american English. It has 3 sounds that ar problematic for most europeans, but English has 5. The spelling isnt perfect, but of course much easier than English. The vocabulary isnt really difficult for English speakers: in a running text, 40% of the words have a clear similarity, 40% at least some similarity, and less than 20% are completely different. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Zé do Rock Newbie Brazil zedorock.net Joined 2122 days ago 4 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English | Message 29 of 35 10 July 2018 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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Europano:
Le russe a un système compliqué de cas, mais les verbes en général sont faciles. El alfabeto cirílico es fácil, puedes aprenderlo en algunas pocas horas, mismo que las palabras sean mas dificiles de memorizar y reconocer, a no ser, claro, que vivas en Rusia y veas las palabras diariamente. E a língua tem frequentemente palavras bem longuinhas... Oft hat es ziemlich schräge konsonantenklumpen, aber irgendwie kriegt man das hin. I guess the worst aspect for the lerner is the irregular stress, you neva know where the stress is, so you dont know how to pronounce the E's and O's, which change depending on whetha they are stressed or unstressed. Larabe a une écriture plus difficile que la russe, et la manque de voyales ne le fait pas plus facile. Mas la peor pra mi es la pronunciación. Mesmo a transcrissao IPA das palavras tem um aspecto absolutamente estranho, com todas aquelas "letras" que eu nunca vi na vid. English: Russian has a complicated case system, but the verbs are usually easy. The cyrillic alphabet is easy, you can learn it in a few hours, but of course it is much more difficult to memorize and recognize, unless, of course, you live in Russia and see the words everyday. And it often has quite long words... It has quite often unusual consonant clusters, but they're manageable. I guess the worst aspect for the learner is the irregular stress, you never know where the stress is, so you dont know how to pronounce the E's and O's, which change depending on whether they are stressed or unstressed. Arabic has a more difficult writing system than cyrillic, and the lack of vowels dont make it easier. But the worst for me is the pronunciation. Even the IPA transcription of the words looks absolutely wierd, with all those specials signs i've never seen before. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Zé do Rock Newbie Brazil zedorock.net Joined 2122 days ago 4 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English | Message 30 of 35 10 July 2018 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Reformiert:
Das schlimmste für mich is chinesish. OK, once you can speak and read the words, it gets quite simple, since the grammar is really simple. Mais pour arriver la-bas, il faut apprendre a écrire et lire, et sa cest vraiment un défi. Y para mi, peor que leer y escribir es pronunciar las palabras. Nao sao só os tons, sao os sons das letras. Auch wenn sie die ganze zeit pinyin verwenden würden, wär es sehr schwer, da der einzige laut, der wirklich gleich is, das F is, alle anderen sind mindestens ein bisschen anders. When i was in China, i felt as if i was trying to lern the language of birds or of apes. La prononciacion vietnamienne est encore plus difficile, plus de tons que le chinois et pour moi il sonne comme quelcun qui parle avec 3 boites de chewing-gum dans la bouche. Pero por lo menos utilizan el alfabeto romano... English: The worst for me is chinese. OK, once you can speak and read the words, it gets very simple, since the grammar is really simple. But to get there, you have to learn to write and read, and that's quite a challenge. And for me, worse than reading and writing is pronouncing the words. It's not only the tones, it's also the sounds. Even if they used pinyin all the time it would be really difficult, after all i think the only letter that has really the same pronunciation is F, all the others are at least a bit different. When i was in China, i felt as if i was trying to learn the language of birds or of apes. Vietnamese pronunciation is still harder, more tones than chinese and to me it sounds like somebody who's speaking with 3 paks of chewing gum in their mouth. But at least they use the roman alphabet... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Monox D. I-Fly Senior Member Indonesia monoxdifly.iopc.us Joined 4917 days ago 762 posts - 664 votes Speaks: Indonesian* | Message 31 of 35 10 July 2018 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | ||
Ironically, I find Cyrillic more difficult than Arabic exactly because it's too similar with Latin thus my brain automatically reads Cyrillic as Latin associating with the most similar-shaped letter in Latin despite the sound is completely different. On the other hand, though, I agree with the pronunciation part. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3834 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 32 of 35 11 July 2018 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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Welcome!
Zé do Rock, welcome to the How-To-Learn-Any-Language (HTLAL) language forum! In consulting any of the sub-forums, you will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that this website contains a vast archive of discussion threads touching upon issues of interest to independent language-learners. Nevertheless, as you progress through the files, you will also notice that the posting dates clearly suggest a much reduced level of activity over the past few years. What happened, did everyone suddenly lose interest in the subject? Well, no … Historically Low Level of Activity The HTLAL is, technologically speaking, a rather old platform that is difficult to maintain. The recurring technical problems, along with a number of other issues, resulted in the agonizing decision to (effectively) abandon the HTLAL as an active discussion board and to replace it with one for which the technical maintenance is significantly easier. The newer, replacement board was launched circa July, 2015. Since that time, most of the more active members of the HTLAL have registered on the newer discussion board and they now only rarely visit this board. This explains the lower level activity here. The HTLAL continues to serve as a highly-appreciated archive of past discussions; however, a quick review of the posting dates reveals that the level of activity has declined to an historically low level. Replacement Discussion Board Zé do Rock, should you, or any of the longer-term members of the HTLAL who have recently posted on this board, wish to communicate with a wider group of more active language-learning enthusiasts, I suggest that you register on the REPLACEMENT language forum. Here is the LINK: A Language Learners' Forum (LLORG) Kind regards, Speakeasy 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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