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Modern Standard Arabic grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3846 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes  Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 1 of 14 08 April 2015 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Hi everyone,
I decided that my second new language will be MSA. I'm thrilled by the culture and by it's colourful language and difficult grammar. It will give me a significant edge with other languages too. Because of the completely different nature of the language, I want to try Emanuele Marini's method of studying all the grammarfirst as a model of the language, and then fill it with words and expression. I don't aim to speak MSA, but to read, write and listen to it. My plan is - first phase: grammar study and writing exercises - second phase: massive reading and vocabulary learning - third phase: LR, some tutoring to learn pronunciation - fourth phase: massive input, both reading and listening Ok! so, about the first phase. I read around that a fantastic grammar book is this (though some minor flaw). But it is in English. It's obviously not a problem, but I consider also books in Italian, French, Spanish or Portuguese. Can you please advice me some? Thank you very much. EDIT: forgot to mention that I already studied the Arabic alphabet when I studied a little Persian, so I will just refresh them but I don't need material for that. Edited by tristano on 08 April 2015 at 3:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5860 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 2 of 14 08 April 2015 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Ciao, Tristano.
So, you're going to try your first "real" foreign language, are you? No more accomodating Latin alphabet or IE structure? Good for you! There's a big number of Arabic grammars in the market. When I was learning it formally, I never got one: our teacher would make a manual and then explain it to us. So, I have no Romance-based grammar to recommend, although there must be some good ones. I'm thinking about French, and maybe Spanish. My teacher spoke very highly of German materials (language which he didn't know himself), but that's beyond the scope of your question. Besides from Haywood & Nahmad, which you mention, the other that usually gets the best reviews is that of Wright. I don't have extensive experience with either, but at least you may have a second reference. Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| fiolmattias Triglot Groupie Sweden geocities.com/fiolmaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6488 days ago 62 posts - 129 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, Arabic (Written) | Message 3 of 14 08 April 2015 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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If your goal is MSA, and not Classical Arabic I would not recommend Wright at all,
since it deals with Classical Arabic. Haywood & Nahmad is not my first choise either. The English is oldfashioned and so is the layout. The only good thing with it is the exercises, but to be able to do them you have to have a fairly large vocabulary (2000-4000 words). My recommendation is instead Rydings grammar (super!) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reference-Grammar-Modern-Standard- Grammars/dp/0521777712/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428517773&sr= 8- 1&keywords=ryding+arabic+grammar or Alhawary that is easier to read: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Standard-Arabic-Grammar- Blackwell/dp/1405155027/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428517686&sr =8- 1&keywords=alhawary+grammar Edited by fiolmattias on 08 April 2015 at 8:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5631 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 4 of 14 09 April 2015 at 12:03am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Hi. If you're new to MSA I would recommend Mastering Arabic 1 and/or
Mastering Arabic Grammar by Wightwick before tackling one of the heavy grammar. They allow you to gently dip your toe at the shallow end of MSA grammar before taking the plunge at the deep end. La lingua araba contemporanea by Claudia M Tresso is also good for beginners but goes into more detail than Wightwick. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3846 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 5 of 14 09 April 2015 at 10:40am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Hi everyone, thanks for your answers.
@Luso, thanks :) Actually I tried with Mandarin last year and it was a disaster. Wrong approach, almost no experience with language learning. Now I speak two languages more and I have better skills and better tools. In general can be useful a reference grammar, but now I need a grammar with exercises. @fiolmattias: the old fashioned English and the layout is not a problem. I need to learn to structure of Arabic thoroughly. If not the 100%, at least the 90%, to be sure that I'm not facing the issue to understand the meaning of every word but not the meaning of the sentence. I really need the exercises, so every grammar without exercises will be useless for me at this specific moment. And here I would like to understand your statement about the vocabulary better. I expect, with a grammar of Arabic, since the vocabulary is structured in radicals, that the vocabulary has to be presented at the same time of the grammar. Is not the case? Are you suggesting that this book is not for beginners? @stelingo, thank you very much for the advice! It would be very nice if I can use the italian book, but unfortunately I didn't find many information of it - and Italian reviewers still didn't understand that they have to put a review of the item, not the shipping. Did you use it? Do you find it more difficult of Mastering Arabic grammar? Also. I wrote that I know the alphabet and I just need to refresh it. True. But I never wrote it by hand. I think it would be much better if I can exercise the handwriting. Do you guys know very valuable books for it, to avoid to do exercises with an abysmal calligraphy? Thank you again! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5631 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 6 of 14 09 April 2015 at 11:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Yes, I've done the first few chapters. It is more of a course book with
dialogues, but the grammar explanation are clear and detailed and there are plenty of exercises. For example the book devotes two whole chapters on Arabic numbers and case agreement, a very thorough coverage of a topic that native speakers struggle with. There is also some audio. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5631 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 7 of 14 09 April 2015 at 11:27am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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I almost forgot there is also a series of books in the "Practise makes
Perfect" series which are also good. I have "Practice Makes Perfect Arabic Verb Tenses" also by Wightwick. This is pure grammar with hundreds of exercises. I have so many books on MSA and not enough time to use them all. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5860 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 8 of 14 09 April 2015 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
A few points:
Point(s) taken. As I said, my experience with either is limited. I didn't know that Wright's grammar could be viewed as Classical Arabic. Coming to think of it, dating originally from 1859 (and being a translation from an earlier source), could it ever be considered as MSA either? Furthermore, it's a bit obscure and uses all those latinisms. Mid 19th century indeed. In any case, I agree it's not for tristano, at least for now. Maybe one day he'll be able to enjoy "The Nomina Agentis et Patientis and other Verbal Adjectives". :P I like (and use) Ryding's grammar. Maybe I should have started with that one. Thanks for the suggestion, fiolmattias.
It's still a whole new ballgame. More rewarding, IMHO, but different. Go easy into it. In Portuguese, we have a saying: "Roma e Pavia não se fizeram num dia". ;)
Sorry to barge in, but are you sure you want to find your exercises in a grammar? In principle, you should find those in your learning method (whatever it is).
Me again. :) It's not really a review, but I found this on Goodreads. And it's in Italian!
There are calligraphy notebooks, but you don't really need them. I got one (in fact, two) as a gift. My girlfriend ordered them from a site in France. Since there are millions of Europeans learning Arabic for religion-related purposes (including a lot of children), you should be able to find one such site easily. I found them beautiful and never really used them. They are still in a drawer. As it happens, I have a good (and fast) Arabic calligraphy. Being left-handed must help. :P If you want to train your calligraphy, just buy an old-fashioned "notebook of two lines" (is that the expression in English?). They are used by small children starting to write. They are rare nowadays (it's a pity), but I used them a lot as a kid, back in the Dark Ages. As for examples of proper technique, try youtube. Many beautiful videos there. Stopping watching will be your problem. Edited by Luso on 09 April 2015 at 2:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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