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Authentic Regional Accent in Target Lang | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4463 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes  Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 33 of 44 17 April 2015 at 11:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Some regional accents sound more ''standard'' , globally, than the national varieties:
For example, the accent of Canadian English as used in the city of St. John's (NF) sounds more standard than the accent used in Calgary, Alberta, because it lacks Canadian features that may be rejected in standard North American English (either ''newscastese'' or Hollywood English), such as: 1. Canadian raising, in St. John's NF HOUSE is [haʊs] , in Calgary Alberta HOUSE is [həʊs] 2. Canadian vowel shift: in St. John's NF LOT is [lät] (as in General American), in Calgary most people round it to [lɒt] (this would be considered ''Valley girl accent'' in the USA, and not General American). When people from rural parts of Newfoundland move to Western Canada, they don't try to fit in by putting the Western Canadian accent, but they use the unofficial standard Newfoundland accent (the ''townie'' accent, that of the capital: St. John's), which would be considered fairly standard in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj7oyRdYh6w For a Western Canadian accent, try this interview with Jessica Lucas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAADQetVRSI Heavy Canadian shifting make her sound like a prototypical Valley Girl, in the American context: lot faster [lɒt' fastɚ] instead of General American [lät ˈfæstɚ] etc. I'm not fond of this shift: lot [lɒt] or [lɔt] mom [mɒm] or [mɔm] well [wæl] cast [kast] US [ju:æss] (sounds like non-shifted ''you ass'' :) ) Edited by Medulin on 17 April 2015 at 11:18am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4502 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 34 of 44 17 April 2015 at 11:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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As far as I remember they don't sound like that but I may be wrong, hehe.
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| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5225 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 35 of 44 17 April 2015 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I don't believe in language learning miracles. When I hear foreigners speaking near-native French or English, I'm always curious to find out how they acquired such a high level of ability. There is usually a story that presents some combination of: a parent or significant other who spoke the target language, starting at a young age, living in the country of the target language, attending a school in the target language, etc. This is all the more important in the case of someone who speaks a regional variety of the language. And I want to emphasize that I'm talking about speaking the language in general and not just the ability to imitate the accent. Pardon my incredulity but I find it hard to believe that a 23-year old Norwegian woman can acquire such good speaking skill in Georgie English just by practicing (with Youtube videos?) and without having set foot in England. She must have picked it up somewhere and somehow. When we marvel at the English-language skills of the Scandinavians and the Dutch, we must remember that there is a reason for this. Not all Scandinavians and Dutch speak perfect English. It's not in their genes. We have to just look at the nature of their exposure to English. But I think all the major arguments on this question have already been made. Let's see some action. Since the OP claims to be making progress in acquiring various regional dialects in various languages, it would be interesting to see how all this is unfolding. Why not a sort of video log on Youtube where we can all see the progress? Just some talking head videos would be sufficient although I think it would be even better to see some real interaction with native speakers. I'm particularly curious to see and hear the working-class Québécois French. Edited by s_allard on 17 April 2015 at 2:03pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 36 of 44 17 April 2015 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The OP has clearly focused on the accent, though. If you're not impressed, no need to push your own standards. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5225 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 37 of 44 17 April 2015 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In a departure from my usual policy of not responding to what I consider scurrilous and puerile posts, I'd like to
address this issue of the OP focusing on accent and not on actually speaking the language dialect in question. Here is what the OP wrote:
I take this to mean actually speaking the language with a specific accent. But one could entertain the thought that some people are not really interested in speaking the language with natives but more in imitating the accent for show purposes. For example, one could concentrate on saying the same text in different accents. There would be no need to actually speak with natives. This actually can be quite entertaining and usually comical but I don't think it's the purpose here. Edited by s_allard on 18 April 2015 at 7:38am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 4854 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 38 of 44 18 April 2015 at 12:17am | IP Logged | ||||||||
True, members of a low-status group could be offended if you speak in their accent, without having learned the language through members of that group and living alongside them as a member of their community. But, I doubt anyone would be offended by a foreigner living in Pittsburgh/Western Canada/Kansas/Rhode Island speaking an authentic Pittsburgh/Western Canada/Kansas/Rhode Island accent rather than General American. They would just assume you picked it up by living there... You might be getting into offensive hot water if you try to speak authentic African American Vernacular English to people, because of the racism, status differences, and strong community ties surrounding that dialect, but probably less so if you're black (Haitian, African, etc.). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 39 of 44 18 April 2015 at 3:22am | IP Logged | ||||||||
misgendered as usual...
I never claimed that. The OP is certainly more interested in speaking than I am. This response follows one of your posts:
(I would personally extend that from syntax to other things that can go wrong at B2 or even B1) Basically, "native-like" clearly refers to the accent itself, and not to the whole notion of speaking a regional dialect indistinguishably from a local. Of course that's possibly the end goal, but nobody claimed that you can achieve it at home without ever visiting the area in question (or by spending a mere week there). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4502 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 40 of 44 18 April 2015 at 3:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The only problem that poses is that people may assume you are local or native and
therefore use higher-register vocabulary. But if you are at a B2 level you can probably deal with it in some way, so I can't see it as problematic. At B1... it's harder. One of my students has this disadvantage - her accent is excellent but she occasionally makes syntax mistakes and this gives her away (the accent hardly does). This leads people to assume she is very far (and her Dutch *is* good) but she may be stumped occasionally by things you don't expect. However, she can deal with them adequately. I think it may even be advantageous as you may get to hear vocabulary people might not otherwise use because of the "dumbing down" effect with foreigners. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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