|
 |
How much time studying vocabulary? | ||
Tags: Time to learn | Vocabulary learning | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Po-ru Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5265 days ago 173 posts - 235 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Spanish, Norwegian, Mandarin, French | Message 17 of 350 20 April 2015 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Smallwhite thanks for your really detailed reply. Lots of great information here. I just had a follow up question. How many languages do you do this with per day? And what level are you at in these languages you are using the techniques with? I ask this because I study multiple languages at a time and I know that every minute counts in the act of juggling them. Since my languages are each at very different skill levels, I find that spending 11-21 minutes per day on vocabulary may or may not be the best use of time. For example, I can make a strong argument as to why I should spend more time studying Norwegian or Korean vocabulary because I am still in the process of acquiring the 5000 or so most frequently used words and am only at around an intermediate level. However, in Japanese, I think this would be way too long since most of my vocabulary now consists of much higher level words (university level, academic paper level) that are generally lower frequency. Or maybe I've got things backwards and actually SHOULD be studying Japanese vocabulary more than I am? I ask this not to criticize your study methods but to get more insight into how they could best be utilized. I for one think that your method of vocab study is fascinating and is not so different from my own. That is why I would like to hear a bit more. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5093 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 18 of 350 20 April 2015 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
My answer probably won't help you decide, because I don't study multiple languages within a day. I tried that, but found it inefficient. Between level zero and B2, I prefer to concentrate on just one language for about 2 to 4 weeks each time. I might do a little bit of work on the other languages, such as answering my cards, but often I don't even do that. And I am very goal-oriented, in the sense that before I reach it, every thing I do, every minor step I take, is for reaching my goal ASAP. And once I reach it, I stop altogether :D My goal is usually something like "solid B2 + 8000 words". So, taking your case of Japanese, if I'm at "shaky B2 + 7000 words", I'd put down everything else and concentrate on finishing off my goal. And then call it a day :D I thinks decisions are easier if you have clear goals in mind. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Po-ru Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5265 days ago 173 posts - 235 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Spanish, Norwegian, Mandarin, French | Message 19 of 350 21 April 2015 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
I definitely agree. I think that goals are important and that study plans need to be molded around one's goals. Naturally, if one aims at reading a novel in Russian that will take markedly more dedication and a much different approach to the language than someone who is looking to become conversant in it. I understand better your approach to vocabulary learning and the steps you take to more smoothly achieve your goal. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4694 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 20 of 350 27 April 2015 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
This is a figure that I find amazing, that you can learn a word in 60 seconds spread over a year (and I realize this doesn't include setting up your SRS, etc). That's flipping great! I'm not that bright, unfortunately, and I need several views of the card on the first day just to get it, with more than 15 repetitions over the year. I suppose a relevant question is, how long have you been learning 8000 words per year in 22 minutes a day? People can do amazing things over the short term, but is the pace you mentioned sustainable? Edited by Jeffers on 27 April 2015 at 6:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5215 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 21 of 350 27 April 2015 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
|
Like Jeffers, I'm astounded at the learning rate of 8000 words per year in 22 minutes a day. Two questions come to
mind. First, does learning a word encompass all the various forms and meaning?. For example, a very common verb like llevar in Spanish has all kinds of meanings and uses that figure in a good dictionary. So, is llevar really just one word out of 8000 or does it carry some weighting that makes it more like 10/8000? The same can be said for the various high-frequency verbs. The second question is how well can the speaker use these words, both for comprehension and production. After one year, does this learner have an passive and/or a productive vocabulary of 8000 words? Let's say an passive vocabulary of 8000 words and a productive vocabulary of the most common 2500 words in the language. This is extremely good and getting into the range of a C1-C2 speaker for Spanish. Is this possible in a year? Edit: changes "active vocabulary of 8000 words" to "passive vocabulary of 8000 words" Edited by s_allard on 27 April 2015 at 11:18pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4306 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 22 of 350 27 April 2015 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
You missed the point where he/she isn't learning the words in 22 minutes per day, only reviewing them in this time slot. At an average of 2 seconds per word for writing it down in L2, this suggests that any kind of SRS system wouldn't have been necessary in the first place and was only done as a confidence booster or to further automatize their use. The actual learning takes place in the many hours he/she spends with the language and when putting the words into the SRS system as far as I understand. Thinking about it, this is actually the usage SRS systems were made for in the first place: not for learning, but for not forgetting. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4694 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 23 of 350 27 April 2015 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Let's let smallwhite speak for him/herself:
So s/he says s/he learns 8000 words in 21.92 minutes per day. As I said, I realize this doesn't include time taken to gather and input the words initially. It's still an astounding feat. But actually, s/he has done better:
Daegga, I suspect you don't the 22 minutes per day counts learning time because you'd be astounded if it did. But those are smallwhite's words: "Learn 8000 words", "learned and SRS'd". 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5093 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 24 of 350 27 April 2015 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
|
But these aren't just my stats, they're everyone's. That's how SRS works. Except that if you use my Excel file, it takes 2 seconds to answer a card, whereas if you use Memrise, it takes 6 seconds. Anki takes probably 4 seconds.
Memrise Intervals: "It's not entirely a set pattern. The standard ladder is 4 hours, 12 hours, 1 day, 6 days, 12 days, 24 days, 48 days, 90 days, 180 days" That's 9 times over 365 days, plus 6 times at the planting stage / initial learning stage, total 15 times. That's the only piece of information I haven't posted so far. Everything else I have, you just need to follow the maths step-by-step.
As above, 15 times over a year is Memrise's schedule, not my personal Wonder Woman schedule. 15 times includes 6 initial views on the first day. It's 6 times on day 0, and 9 times thereafter until day 365. Anki is 9 times over a year, if memory serves, with no multiple view initially (ie. without the several views you said you need). The figures sound amazing but it's just what all Memrisers and Ankiers are doing. ----- Sustainability: I've never SRS'd a word beyond maybe the 90-day interval (about 6 mths after initial learning), because with all the reading & listening work I do, words become learnt / very familiar within 6 months. So what happens is something like: I start a deck in January, which I SRS until around July, and stop. I start a deck in March, which I SRS until Sept, and stop. Which means I actually spend less than 22mins/day on reviews. I believe everyone does that more or less. If by sustainability you mean whether I can keep adding new words to my SRS, the answer is no. I do it in bursts, like the Jan-Mar example above. -----
I mean 8000 cards. It's up to you whether you want to do 8000 different lemmas(?) or 8000 versions of the one word "llegar".
Qu 2A: After I SRS words, I can use them and I can understand them. I thought it's the same for everyone, but you seem to imply that some people don't know a word even after SRSing. Then I don't know about them. (Why would they bother with SRS if they get nothing out of it, though?) Qu 2B Is this possible in a year?: I'm not saying you can learn all your 8000 words in a year. One year is the SRS rep time. It is maths, to calculate average times. For a word you learned on day 1 of your language journey, you'd have finished 15 reps by day 365. But you don't learn all 8000 words on your first day. You learn over time. For a word that you learn on day 364 of your language journey, likely you're not yet familiar with it yet on day 365. In Anki terms, by day 365, your beginner's vocabulary cards would have become "mature", but your later cards, your advanced vocabulary cards, will still be "young".
That's what I did. I've learnt Spanish for about 370 days, I had a deck of about 6500 words, which I've stopped reviewing, and now I have an advanced deck of about 2500 words. My 370 days weren't consecutive (I didn't start Apr 2014 but earlier) but I don't think that's relevant here. And now I am better in Spanish that I am in my C1 French. I definitely know more Spanish words than French words.
I believe so. Exactly, for not forgetting what's learnt. tl;dr Those figures I gave were just a quantification of the standard Memrise/Anki routines. If I asked you to quantify how much time it takes to SRS, you'd have come up with the same figures. 4 seconds x ( 6 initial reps + 9 review reps ) x 8000 cards / 365 days = 22 minutes per day answering cards Edited by smallwhite on 28 April 2015 at 12:41am 3 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
