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Review: Gramática de uso del Español | ||
Tags: Language Program | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 17 of 24 26 May 2015 at 1:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Or maybe your other option are dry textbooks for uni ;) Being done with uni has made me even more picky than before. Although ironically I love medical stuff.
edit: and the Russian situation is even more sad. There are resources for pretty much any national language, but many don't have a good quality. Yet plenty of people wouldn't even think of using an English base; many don't even speak English well enough for that. Edited by Serpent on 26 May 2015 at 1:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4803 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 18 of 24 26 May 2015 at 2:12am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Most language textbooks are boring too. I am fed up with all those exchange students falling in love with a local native by the time they can order a coffee. And I am a student who would love to go abroad on an Erasmus and meet the love of her life. What must all the normal people feel like?
In Czech, there are awesome high quality resources for several languages. And a bunch of mixed quality courses for others (approximately 15 or so languages have at least something good available). However, there is not enough material to get to high level enough to get to normal input and speaking usually. And when it comes to rarer languages, the bookshops strangely don't expect that people can use another L1 than their native so there are very few other language based sources. The monolingual ones are usually the best choice, even though even those might be extremely hard to get as soon as you leave the comfortable realm of mainstream target languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 19 of 24 26 May 2015 at 2:41am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Yeah, I definitely agree. I just mean that these can get more fun when you have to study for a non-language subject. At uni I would keep losing the motivation for German and then regaining it the night before an exam. But never the night before a German exam :D If you want to become a polyglot I'd recommend to avoid the boring materials for mainstream languages like Spanish or German. Save them for when you have no other choice. (see also the convo in Josquin's log) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4803 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 20 of 24 26 May 2015 at 3:19am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Polyglot is a biiiiig word. I am still thinking like "at least one more would be nice" and I don't know whether I'll stop by the next one or the Death shall cut me away from a beginner L15 course half a century from now.
But I am saving for the "no other choice" kind of situations mostly those very mainstream English books that just get translated to everything. I suppose there might even come a day I'll have no choice than open Twilight as L6 might not have anything other intermediate friendly available. P.S. when the uni exams draw closer, I tend to catch myself googling the best tools to learning Mandarin usually. And to lesser extent Japanese and Arabic. Last year, I had learnt hiragana and half katakana by this time. My apologies to James29 for heading a bit off topic. Back to it: One more quality I realized. This series presents the learner with meaningful exercises. No good for nothing "gamification" that looks good but leads nowhere. And as well no exercises requiring knowledge of descriptions and definitions instead of the grammar itself. I believe these two common faults are among the reasons some learners avoid grammar books like plague. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5020 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 21 of 24 26 May 2015 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Sounds more like you bumped into materials badly put together...
Sorry, I don't -- at least stuff available for download. When I was 'qualifying' to teach English something that drove my tutors so nuts they even wrote it in their reports was that I usually wrote my own stuff and exercises about what I was supposed to teach next, disregarding existing materials -- yet another anathema in 'modern' teaching. Remember: revered textbooks can't suck ;( When I need to explain how something works differently in American/Spanish Spanish, I simply say so at the beginning of the split, and I state what "the rules" are in each. Sounds exactly like what confuses you, so I hope you believe I try to make it clear which one applies where.
Hence "lazy natives" and not "monolingual crap". Maybe next time I should change "natives" to "idiots" to avoid confusion. ;)
Happy to oblige in a coupe of days, I guess -- I have another funeral to attend and some work to do. However, I think we should start outlining different types of resources (which have inherently different ways to go awry / succeed) and traits to look for / avoid in each.
I would agree, except I didn't mean (nor say) "necessarily". As James29 said below, some good stuff is self-explanatory (good ol' tables, anyone?), and that I am happy with. Bilingual resources are better than monolingual TL ones when materials have to be dumbed down to make them comprehensible instead of succinctly explaining whatever is needed.
I see your point, but I referred to how in monolingual resources TL features are addressed (or not) regardless of the audience's native language. If some feature is present in the learners' language all they may need is the details. Sections you don't need can be skipped, sure. OTOH people whose language lacks the same feature might need a lengthier introduction to the concept, that may or not may be present. I would expect any 'X for speakers of Y' worth their salt to be considerably to the point in that regard.
Totally agreed, that's what happens when you go to broader categories such as "resources" and why I mentioned a separate thread from the beginning :)
Perhaps we're forgetting that, to companies, producing an edition is not an expense but an investment -- they don't spend money to produce extra editions just for kicks, but because they expect to sell more books. You would need to convince them that "your" way is more profitable, i.e. that the same number of / more books would be bought while fewer editions would need to be made. Looks hard :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4803 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 22 of 24 27 May 2015 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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Well, your way to create material yourself is of course nice, but I usually prefer to
have things put together in one place. I dislike the way most resources scatter the LA specifics among the other things. I would much rather have a chapter devoted to the common differences than a chaos of being told the difference about one thing and not about another. It makes me lose trust in my sources. I think I'll look deeper into the matter and try to find a good book summing it up. "Lazy idiots" is something I can wholeheartedly agree with. :-)
I think this comes as a professional deformation, you overestimate the amount of help people desperately and necesarily need. The fact something is different doesn't make it so difficult most learners couldn't handle the situation without total spoonfeeding. But when they need it, they can always find more examples, more exercises, more books on the topics. It is not fault of the one resource that it doesn't contain everything, no book does. The last point: Some companies already make awesome money by publishing monolingual sources. There is place on the market for both monolingual and bilingual courses, grammars, vocabulary builders, exercise books and so on. I am quite content with there being both and I think the market regulates this aspect quite fine. If I could, I would magically convince the companies about other things they could profit from, if they weren't sitting on their brains instead of using, them but this is not one of them, they already know. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5020 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 23 of 24 29 June 2015 at 5:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Been forcefully away and I had closed the browser tab for this thread, sorry. Better late than never, they say, though...
So, you were complaining about *your* needs (what differences exactly you'd prefer to know about here and now vs. what you're actually told about) not being addressed by the course designer or whomever -- we both see the same problem creep up, just in different places :) WRT to the (off-)topic at hand, I usually create bits of materials on demand but I also compile, organize, and stash it so as to avoid duplicate work, so I'll tell you what: you open a new thread with any questions you have, and I'll be glad to reply there to avoid further hijacking of the thread (although it stalled anyway).
:)
What, just because I sometimes teach languages? Not really :) I bumped into this problem first as a student, and then all the time. You did too: '[...] chaos of being told the difference about one thing and not about another'. A recent example: I'm currently doing Pimsleur Russian and bumped into it again: they said "pay attention to X -- this is a sound that does not exist in English" and I was like "WTF? Y and Z, which appeared 5 mins ago, don't exist in English either yet all we're supposed to keep an eye on is that?". Sure, this kind of nonsense happens both in bilingual and monolingual resources -- I would just expect it to be less frequent in bilingual ones. Edited by mrwarper on 29 June 2015 at 5:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| phonology Groupie Peru Joined 3506 days ago 40 posts - 48 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 24 of 24 29 June 2015 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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the publisher espasa should create a version in English and other languages
New Grammar of the Spanish language 3 volumes explaining all source: http://www.rae.es/recursos/gramatica/nueva-gramatica Edited by phonology on 29 June 2015 at 4:15pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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