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Sick and tired of SRS part 2 | ||
Tags: Spaced Repetition (SRS) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| cod2 Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4332 days ago 48 posts - 69 votes  | Message 25 of 41 19 June 2015 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Cool! Someone created a part 2 of my thread! I am part of HTLAL folklore now (well I
will claim so anyway :-) Just to add my two cents, I didn't give up on Anki in the end. I stopped using it for probably two weeks. Then I realised that Anki was the bedrock of my daily routine and without it I was simply drifting. My current method is here: Link It works very well for me. Edited by cod2 on 22 June 2015 at 6:12pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| chaotic_thought Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 3320 days ago 129 posts - 274 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Dutch, French | Message 26 of 41 19 June 2015 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
Dictionary form is the form that is typically presented in a dictionary. For example, here are some sentences I wrote to learn some French words: le directeur signe le document / signer je m'installe en face de toi / s'installer ils présentent les autres collegues / présenter If the underlined term is missing, I should be able to type that. But I should also know the dictionary form if I want to look it up in a dictionary. The type of dictionary you use usually does not matter. I would expect any dictionary to list the verb as 'présenter'. Sometimes dictionaries for learners have another entry at some conjugated forms, for example if you look up 'présentent' then it will say something like "-> présenter" which means you need to go there to look at the main entry. Edited by chaotic_thought on 19 June 2015 at 1:05pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5254 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 27 of 41 19 June 2015 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Cool, got it, tnx chaotic thought for the explanations! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lusan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 3720 days ago 35 posts - 53 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Polish | Message 28 of 41 20 June 2015 at 1:00am | IP Logged | |||||
Good thing. I hate Anki. It feels as brushing my teeth twice a day. But without this brushing, my teeth would fall apart. I have the feeling Anki will be with me for many years. Clearly, I have a love and hate relationship with Anki. Anyway, it takes only 20 min a day. So...I am grateful to Anki! Edited by Lusan on 20 June 2015 at 1:01am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5254 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 29 of 41 21 June 2015 at 3:58am | IP Logged | |||||
Hi Cod2, slowly but surely I think I'm resolving my issues with SRS mainly due to the great advice I'm receiving here that's gradually sinking into my consciousness, albeit with backsteps of reluctancy. I couldn't get your link to work... could you point in me in the right direction (thread/log and page nbr perhaps) or resend the link? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5254 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 30 of 41 21 June 2015 at 4:18am | IP Logged | |||||
Hi Lusan, Yes it seems that Anki (or other SRS FC systems) have their place. A link I posted in the first or second post of this thread discusses how memory recollection with FCs/SRS is not useful for language learning (according to the author) as language acquisition is not rote memory recollection, but more experience/association or something along those lines. It makes a lot of sense, however I feel SRS/FCs/word lists etc (that kind of memory activity) is useful in terms of triggering the memory to recall the word which you then aim to use in the real world (ok, I don't so much). The trick is not over-relying on this kind of activity as your bread and butter, but using it as the yeast or whatever anology fits to help hold the chunkier bits together (i'm basically reciting what I'm learning here). My problem was over use- making the mistake of it taking over my other activities instead of using it as a trigger for essential recall/ quick practise for recall/ additional supplemantary tool (sparingly). As for teeth- hmm I know it's only an analogy, but like so many things we are 'taught' (brainwashed) that are good for us I question it. The real issue is not whether we brush our teeth or not, but what foods are coming into contact with our teeth, and what foods are devoid of minerals thereby having immense indirect effects on the body (incuding teeth) in metabolizing them by having to take minerals from our body just to effectively metabolize them - these minerals are taken from our bones and teeth (=osteoporosis, dental decay). Of course if you eat poorly and don't brush it's a double edged sword, but eating healthily in the first place (ok, not realistic for a high proportion of the population the way we currently live) would require very little brushing. Think diet pills and fat/obesity. Diet pills don't keep you lean, eating healthily and exercise does. We've strayed so far from basics that we no longer know the truth. One day it might be take your daily diet pills, it keeps your body lean and lowers your risk of heart disease (marketing hype of course). How does this relate. I ranted there I know, sorry health/conspiracies/social engineering/propaganda are all interests of mine. I guess If we are learning healthily (ok in an ideal world- on location in L2 environment maybe for example) some people don't even require flashcards/SRS/wordlists. But like you, I agree, they can be vital (like toothbrushes in a not so ideal scenario). PM PS Excuse the rant- I've been reading "Cure Tooth Decay" (available in Spanish for anyone curious- not French though). by Ramiel Nagel. Excellent book for anyone interested in dental health 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5310 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 31 of 41 21 June 2015 at 4:46am | IP Logged | |||||
SRS helps in at least two specific ways: 1. Rote memorization of the meaning of a word may help when you encounter the word in a real text. Instead of saying, "What does this word mean?" you would say, "Oh, wait a second, I think this means… X? Does that make sense here?" You actually learn the word by encountering it in context, but the rote memorization is sometimes the only thing that allows you to exploit a context. 2. More interestingly, SRS sentence cards work far more like extensive input than they do like rote memorization. Basically, they allow you to see rare or tricky words more often than you naturally would, and to see them in a familiar context. This seems to help the brain internalize them—not via rote memorization, but by whatever process allows words to be learned under normal conditions. Frankly, I'm not impressed by much of the language-learning research out there, for three reasons: a. Many of the researchers, especially the anglophones, seem to have little personal language-learning experience, which affects the questions they ask, and how the interpret the results. b. Quite a few language acquisition studies seem to be designed to answer the question, "Do humans have a special-purpose Language Acquisition Device that is compatible with Linguistics Theory X?" rather than the question, "What's the most effective way to learn a language?" In practice, this causes these researchers to classify highly proficient adult speakers with an excellent mastery of colloquial language as failures, because they didn't quite achieve native-like results. I find this perspective boring; if it it were true in any useful sense, I wouldn't be able to carry on a conversation with my wife, since we both learned each other's languages well out of any posited critical period. c. Even when researchers ask interesting questions, the science is frequently terrible: Small sample sizes, primarily anecdotal results, etc. Now, I have nothing against anecdotes—and people like Krashen have certainly documented some nice ones—but if I want anecdotes, I can find plenty here on HTLAL, which has a remarkable concentration of experienced language learners and world-class polyglots. Sure, I'd believe a rigorous study over anecdotes, but as noted, rigor is often in very short supply. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lusan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 3720 days ago 35 posts - 53 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Polish | Message 32 of 41 21 June 2015 at 4:53am | IP Logged | |||||
Ja, ja, ja...Anki alone will not teach me the language. I like the idea of a trigger. When I speak the little Polish I know, the words suddenly appear in my mind or my mouth. They show up as sounds. Anki is purely visual. I think it would help mostly to read, and it seems that at the end of the day is all connected. At the moment my focus is with sound. How to allow the language to come out from the silence within and understanding happening without translating. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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