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Is translation evil?

 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
22 messages over 3 pages: 1 2
Serpent
Octoglot
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Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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 Message 17 of 22
10 July 2015 at 6:49pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for expanding on what I mentioned a couple of posts above yours :)
For me the coolest part is how African Portuguese turned the expression into the default noun for breakfast, though.

Edited by Serpent on 10 July 2015 at 6:49pm

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chaotic_thought
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 Message 18 of 22
12 July 2015 at 1:51pm | IP Logged 
Zegpoddle wrote:
If you throw out translation, say goodbye to many
tried-and-true language learning tools
such as organized word lists, parallel/interlinear texts, and most
SRS/flashcard systems like Anki. (Please don’t tell me you can find a picture to replace every
word/phrase/sentence on the L1 side of your cards because that becomes much more difficult once you exhaust
concrete nouns/verbs/adjectives and you start getting into more abstract concepts. Let me know when you find a
good photo to immediately and precisely convey the meaning of the French relative pronoun dont.)


When I make word lists or cards in Anki I don't use pictures and I don't use translations. I write the "situation" where I saw that word, which helps me to remember the meaning and/or usage of the word. Writing a translation of a word is sometimes a good way to recall what the word means, but not in general.

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Elexi
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 Message 19 of 22
12 July 2015 at 9:53pm | IP Logged 
As if by some strange synchronicity, Gianfranco Conti has produced an interesting
discussion on translation:

https://gianfrancoconti.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/translation -part-1-the-case-for-
translation-in-foreign-language-instruction/
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Mork the Fiddle
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 Message 20 of 22
13 July 2015 at 10:29pm | IP Logged 
chaotic_thought wrote:
When I make word lists or cards in Anki I don't use pictures and I don't use translations. I write the "situation" where I saw that word, which helps me to remember the meaning and/or usage of the word. Writing a translation of a word is sometimes a good way to recall what the word means, but not in general.


Interesting practice. Might you give us a couple of examples of what you do? The word or expression in L2 and your description of the situation, as you call it?

(I'm afraid my questions are off-topic from the OP, but I don't quite know how to start a new topic while retaining the substance and direction of Chaotic_thought's response.)
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chaotic_thought
Diglot
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 Message 21 of 22
14 July 2015 at 10:05pm | IP Logged 
Mork the Fiddle wrote:
chaotic_thought wrote:
When I make word lists or cards in Anki I don't use pictures and I don't use translations. I write the "situation" where I saw that word, which helps me to remember the meaning and/or usage of the word. Writing a translation of a word is sometimes a good way to recall what the word means, but not in general.


Interesting practice. Might you give us a couple of examples of what you do? The word or expression in L2 and your description of the situation, as you call it?


For example in my French class we had a few dialogues and usually situations where new words would come up. For example the character Serge in our dialogue was trying to find the office of the director and he saw a sign on the door that said "Entrez sans frapper". In that case the word 'frapper' I just write in my notebook indx:

frapper | Serge ... directuer ... "Entrez sans frapper".

This covers exactly the amount of information that I needed to reference the word in my index.

This is an example where trying to perform a translation is much harder. For example, it's pretty easy to tell from this situation that "frapper" means "knock". However, if I try to write the following in my index:

frapper | knock

It just doesn't make any sense. What does 'knock' mean? Is it the act of knocking, is it the sound that you hear (I heard a 'knock'?). There's just no way to know. Furthermore 'knock' is also a wide-ranging verb in English and can be applied to other non-literal situations (e.g. "Don't knock it.") Writing a single word without any context doesn't address any of these real possibilities.

The other alternative is to write a complete usage of your word:

knock on a door -> ??? frapper ???

The problem with this approach is that it takes much more skill to come up with a valid translation of your phrase "to knock on a door" into the language you're learning. I think this was like the first week of French class, so, although I understood the word 'frapper', I didn't understand how I could write "to knock on a door".


(I'm afraid my questions are off-topic from the OP, but I don't quite know how to start a new topic while retaining the substance and direction of Chaotic_thought's response.)[/QUOTE]
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Mork the Fiddle
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 Message 22 of 22
14 July 2015 at 10:39pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for the examples.


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