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Extensive Reading Approaches | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| chobbs Newbie United States Joined 4363 days ago 35 posts - 47 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 9 of 18 23 August 2015 at 6:29pm | IP Logged |
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When I tossed out that 98% number I wasn't referring to the Professor specifically. It was just a number I had seen quoted all across the Internet as being the "ideal" for extensive reading. It seemed a pretty much impossible task to find that type of material unless one was highly advanced. If that 2% is simply words that you have to look up to keep understanding the story then finding that kind of material is much easier.
As to Esperanto's affixes, yes it seems those in particular are what often slow down my understanding while reading. Especially because at first glance it all looks familiar, but the meaning doesn't immediately jump to mind. - Chris 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 18 23 August 2015 at 7:12pm | IP Logged |
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The 80% figure comes from this thread. I remember seeing it after that too.
I wouldn't say that missing minor details is a flaw of LR. I would personally find it boring to go through the text twice like that. If I was really concerned about the details, I'd read intensively. (Have you thought of using a popup dictionary? It's great that you've seen those links before but how much have you actually tried?) Also note that LR ideally requires a parallel text, not just L1 text and L2 audio. I've never done that myself though (with long texts). I generally simply pause the recording whenever I need to go over something again, or whenever I'm struggling to keep up. Sometimes it just helps to chill out for a few seconds. Basically I agree with iguanamon. Experiment :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| chobbs Newbie United States Joined 4363 days ago 35 posts - 47 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 11 of 18 23 August 2015 at 7:40pm | IP Logged |
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To answer you question Serpent, I have tried many of the approaches, and finding an approach I am comfortable with using is easy enough. I have that part of the experimentation process down, it is the results that I am concerned about though. Just because I enjoy the method doesn't mean it will bring any lasting results. And, given the huge amount of time one must invest I really don't want to find it wasted if I can help avoid it. Obviously that is somewhat of an exaggeration as time spent is probably never truly wasted in regards to language learning, but I do want to maximize that effort if at all possible.
Where I currently sit with Esperanto is easily the furthest I have gotten a language. For myself, it is uncharted territory, but I realize most of the learners here have been through this at least once before. Yes, reading with a popup dictionary is pretty much the only way I read at the initial stages. For non ebooks I tend to not look anything up while reading simply because the dictionary is usually a pain to bother with while reading. After I am finished I will usually have a word or two in my head to go check in the dictionary, but usually when I am reading a physical book I just read. However, I have yet to get past this incessant need to have English verification of what I read. A part of me hopes that it will simply drop away in time, but I am not sure if that is just false hope and if the manner in which I am doing my extensive reading is perpetuating or helping the process along. - Chris 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6489 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 18 23 August 2015 at 7:55pm | IP Logged |
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It all depends on what you mean by "understanding" a text. If you want to understand just about everything then it is not just a higher percentage of known words (and everything else) you need, but simply another KIND of understanding than the type of 'reading' where you are content with getting the general meaning. There is definitely a lower limit for how little you need in order to get the gist from, say, a newspaper article, but it would be impossible to give one single figure. A text with many international words is easier to 'guess-read' than one with a large percentage of authtonous words or slang, and your own mental state is also a factor - if you are bored or tired you aren't as receptive to clues in the text as you are when you are top fit and very eager.
On the other hand reading for all but complete understanding doesn't give you much leeway - here you also need to know the syntax of the 'small grey words' and peripheral meanings of a lot of semi-rare words. But you are rewarded with an insight in the text and its meaning which you don't get from even a chain of successful guesses. One reason that ProfArguelles in most cases has referred to the high numbers (which he also did in his lecture in Novi Sad last year) could be that he is very focused on reading literary masterworks. And you can hardly squeeze any literary enjoyment out of even the best book if you only understand two thirds of the words. However if it's a scientific article or newspaper article you probably read it for the content, and it you know all the long Latin words then you may actually be able to guess what it is all about. But personally I don't like being in that situation, and that's why I do my utmost to get a large vocabulary as early as possible in the learning process - even before I try to speak a certain language. Edited by Iversen on 23 August 2015 at 7:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 18 24 August 2015 at 2:08am | IP Logged |
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Experimenting involves not only finding what you enjoy, but what works best for you :-) But the most efficient method is the one you won't give up on.
Esperanto is quite unique with those affixes. I generally find that simply reading more eventually makes me more comfortable with my guesses and assumptions. And also that after I've looked up one word, I'm often tempted to look up more often as I keep reading. Edited by Serpent on 24 August 2015 at 2:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| chobbs Newbie United States Joined 4363 days ago 35 posts - 47 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 14 of 18 24 August 2015 at 4:05pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks everybody. That nobody piped up to tell me I would be forever spinning my wheels following X approach tells me that both should be perfectly acceptable and that is a comforting feeling at least. Will see where things stand for me after a few hundred thousand words of reading.
- Chris 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 15 of 18 24 August 2015 at 5:54pm | IP Logged |
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Well, I personally think that repetition is effective if you understood less than 50% on your first pass, or if you're really interested in the content, of course. I tend to think it's better to cover more material instead of repeating. But that's just my opinion.
Also, you probabaly know but according to siomotteikiru, the minimum duration of effective LR is 2 hours per day. I've not always adhered to it, and when I do a lot of LR I tend to need some "recovery time", putting the daily average waaaay below 2h. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| chobbs Newbie United States Joined 4363 days ago 35 posts - 47 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 16 of 18 24 August 2015 at 6:29pm | IP Logged |
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Up to now, with the reading being done on Lingq, it has been easy to get those two passes as I go through with the Audio, then again at a slower pace to create the lingqs. I tend to make another pass a day or two later, but I sometimes have my doubts about whether I am actually reading and understanding or simply recalling what I already know of the story though - same problem I had with my French Assimil work ... there are times I wish I had a poor memory. :)
Unfortunately I didn't find adequate material to truly give LR a whirl for Esperanto. Most stuff that has audio is pretty short in duration. The longest audio/book pair I have is the Alice in Wonderland translation and that is only 4 1/2 hours long. So I am going to have to rely on straight reading for the most part. But, given how easy Esperanto is, it may be that the shorter length of material is actually equivalent to the massive amount needed for other languages. When I was doing LR with French I had a period of a couple weeks where I was putting in 5-7 hours a day. As it was my very first attempt at learning a language outside of High School Spanish classes I don't think I got as much out of it as I would if I were to go back and do so now. I am actually really looking forward to how that goes once the Esperanto diversion is complete. - Chris 1 person has voted this message useful |
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