Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

The overall usefulness of FSI

  Tags: Usefulness | FSI
 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes Post Reply
35 messages over 5 pages: 1 24 5  Next >>
Elexi
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5578 days ago

938 posts - 1840 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 17 of 35
04 September 2015 at 11:53am | IP Logged 
Apologies all.

I should say that I wrote 'dative case' above (now corrected) - that was a slip. I
meant 'genitive' case.

One still needs the genitive in writing, however. Assimil's old Deutsch ohne Mühe is
excellent for learning the genitive, btw.

Edited by Elexi on 04 September 2015 at 1:40pm

1 person has voted this message useful



ExRN
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 3408 days ago

61 posts - 75 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Spanish
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 18 of 35
04 September 2015 at 11:59am | IP Logged 
Elexi wrote:
Apologies all.

I should say that I wrote 'dative case' above (now corrected) - that was a slip. I
meant 'genitive' case.

One still needs the genetive in writing, however. Assimil's old Deutsch ohne Mühe is
excellent for learning the genitive, btw.


That's OK. I repped your reply straight away by the way due to your thorough explanation. Which
universitydo you work at?
1 person has voted this message useful



obsculta
Newbie
United States
Joined 5833 days ago

36 posts - 83 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 19 of 35
04 September 2015 at 4:27pm | IP Logged 
vonPeterhof wrote:
Greek is another course that was created before
a reform. The Greek reform was much more significant in terms of the number of words
affected and in some cases even the grammar. However, a style of writing that is more
similar to the spoken language (and to the modern standard) also existed at the time,
and the course starts out in this style, explicitly noting where there are departures
between it and the more formal variant. IIRC the latter only starts to predominate in
the middle of the second volume, so the first volume is still useful for the grammar
drills and example sentences. Besides, the spelling changes were mostly about replacing
the polytonic accent notation with a simple stress accent mark, so for most words it's
no problem whatsoever to figure out the modern spelling. Since there are exceptions
though, like κ becoming χ in some words, it's still a good idea to check any words you
think of adding to an SRS with a modern dictionary or with Google Translate to see if
the spelling has changed.

This is helpful; I was under the impression that FSI Greek was completely obsolete.
I've been using Hellenic American Union and Language Transfer materials. But I do like
the FSI pattern drills, and it looks like I could still use the first volume without
too much confusion. I don't care about spelling changes at all, but if vocabulary and
grammar had changed significantly, I would want to avoid it.

Edited by obsculta on 04 September 2015 at 4:27pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Spanky
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5969 days ago

1021 posts - 1714 votes 
Studies: French

 
 Message 20 of 35
04 September 2015 at 4:50pm | IP Logged 
ExRN wrote:
Alte Rechtschreibung. Spelling has been reformed since this material was
written, which makes it
unnecessarily confusing.

Quote above is just to prove I am not going mad. So say you learn your German using fsi,
surely you will be
spelling a lot of things wrong?

Spanky wrote:
ExRN wrote:
Prime example being the German course as it is technically
useless in a modern day setting.


Nope.


Very constructive reply. Thank you.



My apologies ExRN for my short post.   I had actually typed out a longer, more constructive
reply that commented negatively on those who state in very definitive terms that something
is useless when they don't actually know what they are talking about. That is such a very
unhelpful thing to do as others reading a post that strongly states as apparent objective
fact that a very useful study aid is "useless" might actually believe that completely wrong
conclusion on the assumption that the poster would not have posted such a strong unqualified
condemnation unless she or he actually knew what they were talking about.   

But I deleted that as it seemed a bit intemperate (sort of like your reply) and instead just
added my voice to those others who have provided a balance to your incorrect assertion.
1 person has voted this message useful



iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5275 days ago

2241 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

 
 Message 21 of 35
04 September 2015 at 5:18pm | IP Logged 
What I have found from using materials like the DLI Portuguese Basic Course which dates from the early 1960's and the DLI Haitian Creole Basic course (more modern at 1991 but horrible audio and non-standard spelling) is, yes, the spelling is outdated and, yes, so is some of the vocabulary. The basics of the language haven't changed. These courses are so thorough and so well designed that it would be a shame not to use them for learning a language. The drills alone are worth their weight in gold. I get all the modern spellings and vocabulary I need from other sources that aren't courses by following a multi-track approach. FSI has a heavy emphasis on drilling which I find highly useful in learning a language. Combine such a course with forays into the real world of the language and FSI will serve you well.
6 persons have voted this message useful



ExRN
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 3408 days ago

61 posts - 75 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Spanish
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 22 of 35
04 September 2015 at 7:29pm | IP Logged 
Spanky wrote:
ExRN wrote:
Alte Rechtschreibung. Spelling has been reformed since this material
was
written, which makes it
unnecessarily confusing.

Quote above is just to prove I am not going mad. So say you learn your German using fsi,
surely you will be
spelling a lot of things wrong?

Spanky wrote:
ExRN wrote:
Prime example being the German course as it is technically
useless in a modern day setting.


Nope.


Very constructive reply. Thank you.



My apologies ExRN for my short post.   I had actually typed out a longer, more constructive
reply that commented negatively on those who state in very definitive terms that something
is useless when they don't actually know what they are talking about. That is such a very
unhelpful thing to do as others reading a post that strongly states as apparent objective
fact that a very useful study aid is "useless" might actually believe that completely wrong
conclusion on the assumption that the poster would not have posted such a strong unqualified
condemnation unless she or he actually knew what they were talking about.   

But I deleted that as it seemed a bit intemperate (sort of like your reply) and instead just
added my voice to those others who have provided a balance to your incorrect assertion.


As with the rest of my post I will state opinion and not fact here. I don't believe you did write a longer post
as you have said. I believe you have written your latest entry to try and make a fool of me but it hasn't
worked. As I said, I have never studied German but only read comments of other people regarding the
course. Other people on this post have been extremely helpful in clearing up some misconceptions that I
had about the courses whilst you thought it a good idea to try and make an absolute mockery of what I
said just because I picked you up on your lazy answer of "nope". Where in my original post did I say it was
a qualified statement that I was making? I wasn't making a review of the course but only quoting hearsay.
1 person has voted this message useful



Spanky
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5969 days ago

1021 posts - 1714 votes 
Studies: French

 
 Message 23 of 35
04 September 2015 at 8:17pm | IP Logged 
ExRN wrote:


... I don't believe you did write a longer post as you have said. I believe you have written your latest entry to try and make a fool of me but it hasn't worked.


I will do my best not to lose any sleep over your belief. If you are upset by the mild manner in which I characterized the unposted first draft, then you undoubtedly will not be happy to learn that the actual wording included the words "head", "butt" and a reference to anatomical placement that if you are a former registered nurse, you would immediately recognize as being improbable.

It was not my intent to try to (I gather you meant "try to" rather than "try and") make a fool of you. There are those who may conclude that you may be on that mission all alone by first loudly denigrating a well-respected set of language materials with a firm pronouncement, and then when politely corrected by knowledgeable posters, going on with an attempt to justify the original incorrect pronouncement

ExRN wrote:


As with the rest of my post I will state opinion and not fact here.

...

As I said, I have never studied German but only read comments of other people regarding the
course.


If you had expressed your opinion, and qualified your ability to pronounce on the usefulness or uselessness of the FSI German courses (it is not clear whether you meant the PI or Basic course, or if you were even aware there were more than one), then all would be good.   If you had said, "I have heard others express the opinion that ..." or "I have not studied it myself, but my assumption is that ...." then all would be good.

Instead, what you said, and the reason I have commented in the manner I have, is the following:


ExRN wrote:
Based on past experiences, I am more than aware that some FSI courses are more useful than others
when it comes to dated vocab and grammar.

....

Prime example being the German course as it is technically
useless in a modern day setting.


You set yourself up was an experienced user, whose opinion I would otherwise be incline to value, and then said that the German course is technically useless.

ExRN wrote:


...

I wasn't making a review of the course but only quoting hearsay.


As in my comments above, if you had said that, you would not have been the recipient of a withering Spanky Nope.

ExRN wrote:


Where in my original post did I say it was
a qualified statement that I was making?


You may be inclined to do lots of other things with your day. My guess (I will be happy to be proven wrong) is that one of those things will be to reply with more snark to this post.

But for the love of jeebus, please let one of those things be to actually read my post.   I did not say you made a qualified statement. To the contrary. I said that your statement was problematic because it was unqualified.


2 persons have voted this message useful



ExRN
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 3408 days ago

61 posts - 75 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Spanish
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 24 of 35
04 September 2015 at 8:34pm | IP Logged 
Spanky wrote:
ExRN wrote:


... I don't believe you did write a longer post as you have said. I believe you have written your latest entry to
try and make a fool of me but it hasn't worked.


I will do my best not to lose any sleep over your belief. If you are upset by the mild manner in which I
characterized the unposted first draft, then you undoubtedly will not be happy to learn that the actual
wording included the words "head", "butt" and a reference to anatomical placement that if you are a former
registered nurse, you would immediately recognize as being improbable.

It was not my intent to try to (I gather you meant "try to" rather than "try and") make a fool of you. There
are those who may conclude that you may be on that mission all alone by first loudly denigrating a well-
respected set of language materials with a firm pronouncement, and then when politely corrected by
knowledgeable posters, going on with an attempt to justify the original incorrect pronouncement

ExRN wrote:


As with the rest of my post I will state opinion and not fact here.

...

As I said, I have never studied German but only read comments of other people regarding the
course.


If you had expressed your opinion, and qualified your ability to pronounce on the usefulness or
uselessness of the FSI German courses (it is not clear whether you meant the PI or Basic course, or if you
were even aware there were more than one), then all would be good.   If you had said, "I have heard others
express the opinion that ..." or "I have not studied it myself, but my assumption is that ...." then all would be

good.

Instead, what you said, and the reason I have commented in the manner I have, is the following:


ExRN wrote:
Based on past experiences, I am more than aware that some FSI courses are more useful
than others
when it comes to dated vocab and grammar.

....

Prime example being the German course as it is technically
useless in a modern day setting.


You set yourself up was an experienced user, whose opinion I would otherwise be incline to value, and
then said that the German course is technically useless.

ExRN wrote:


...

I wasn't making a review of the course but only quoting hearsay.


As in my comments above, if you had said that, you would not have been the recipient of a withering
Spanky Nope.

ExRN wrote:


Where in my original post did I say it was
a qualified statement that I was making?


You may be inclined to do lots of other things with your day. My guess (I will be happy to be proven
wrong) is that one of those things will be to reply with more snark to this post.

But for the love of jeebus, please let one of those things be to actually read my post.   I did not say you
made a qualified statement. To the contrary. I said that your statement was problematic because it was
unqualified.



I have clearly touched a nerve or you wouldn't have gone to such extreme lengths to justify your original
statement of "nope". I hope you don't lose sleep over it as you're probably not a bad person and just a little
misguided in your ability to respond to something in a constructive way. It's OK though. It will come in time
I guess.

In addition, if you are going to pick up on slight errors in my writing, please make sure that everything you
type is correct English too. There are several mistakes in your attempt to discredit everything I have said
which in turn has made you look much the bigger fool.

Edited by ExRN on 04 September 2015 at 8:40pm



1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 35 messages over 5 pages: << Prev 1 24 5  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3906 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.