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The overall usefulness of FSI

  Tags: Usefulness | FSI
 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes Post Reply
35 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 35  Next >>
Spanky
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5419 days ago

1021 posts - 1714 votes 
Studies: French

 
 Message 25 of 35
04 September 2015 at 9:05pm | IP Logged 
ExRN wrote:

I have clearly touched a nerve or you wouldn't have gone to such extreme lengths to justify your original
statement of "nope". I hope you don't lose sleep over it as you're probably not a bad person and just a little
misguided in your ability to respond to something in a constructive way. It's OK though. It will come in time
I guess.

In addition, if you are going to pick up on slight errors in my writing, please make sure that everything you
type is correct English too. There are several mistakes in your attempt to discredit everything I have said
which in turn has made you look much the bigger fool.



Spanky wrote:


You may be inclined to do lots of other things with your day. My guess (I will be happy to be proven wrong) is that one of those things will be to reply with more snark to this post.


Looks like I managed to guess correctly on this one.

You absolutely win ExRN. Now I am "much the bigger fool" as you say and can't sleep. Dang....
2 persons have voted this message useful



Speakeasy
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 3515 days ago

502 posts - 1093 votes 
Studies: German

 
 Message 26 of 35
04 September 2015 at 11:18pm | IP Logged 
No, Speakeasy, RESIST the temptation to enter the fray!

The FSI courses continue to be recognized as the "Gold Standard" of language-learning materials, despite their age and despite the occasional use of more formal, if not stilted, language. If those who decry the use of vocabulary that is still valid in historical contexts, but which no longer holds the same purchase that it once did, fail to understand that it is still useful, well, that will be just one more lapse in their education; there is nothing that you can do about this. These "legacy" materials, which were only PART of a complete instruction programme, that was delivered in a classroom setting, REMAIN the "Gold Standard" DESPITE their oft-mentioned "lacunes". Anyone can choose to use them, or not to use them. Like absolutely everything else in life, the FSI courses have their supporters and their detractors.

So, Speakeasy, let the detractors decry these materials and don't lose a moment's sleep over it.
6 persons have voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6060 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 27 of 35
05 September 2015 at 2:34am | IP Logged 
Spanky wrote:

It was not my intent to try to (I gather you meant "try to" rather than "try and") make a fool of you.

As a non-native I've noticed that "try to" is falling into disuse ;D I'm consciously avoiding this in informal contexts unless I want to sound dramatic. I'm kinda glad someone still uses it but I'm not sure I've seen this variant outside textbooks.

Edited by Serpent on 05 September 2015 at 2:40am

1 person has voted this message useful



ExRN
Groupie
United Kingdom
Joined 2858 days ago

61 posts - 75 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Spanish
Studies: Dutch

 
 Message 28 of 35
05 September 2015 at 2:49am | IP Logged 
Should I say try and or try to? How about would have or would of?

Replace  (I will try and fix it) with  (I will try to fix it). Some grammarians label  as incorrect when really it is
just very informal and best used in conversation.  is standard usage and appropriate for all levels of
formality in both speech and writing. Other colloquial constructions are synonymous, or nearly so, with ,
such as be sure to and go and. Often  is interchangeable with , but there are some contexts in
which  implies success, e.g., "Do try and behave," and others where  is ironic and implies failure, e.g., "Try
and make me move." Fowler's Modern English Usage (Burchfield, R.W., ed. New York: Oxford University
Press [3 ed.], 1996) says, "It is an idiom that should not be discountenanced, but used when it comes
natural"; but Fowler also wrote that it is "almost confined to exhortations and promises," and these are
more common in informal than in formal contexts. As far as  (and woulda), it is an irregular spelling
of  orwould've (same with coulda, could of, shoulda, should of). These forms came to be because they
reflect actual pronunciation and using  in writing often occurs when one is writing in a hurry. The
spellings woulda and  are often referred to as eye dialect, which means 'an unusual spelling intended to
represent colloquial or dialectal idiosyncrasies of pronunciation.'


The use of "try and" and "try to" IS interchangeable. Just to clear that up.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6060 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 29 of 35
05 September 2015 at 3:48am | IP Logged 
Speakeasy wrote:
These "legacy" materials, which were only PART of a complete instruction programme, that was delivered in a classroom setting, REMAIN the "Gold Standard" DESPITE their oft-mentioned "lacunes".

The golden standard where? My impression is that there simply aren't many American drill-based courses. But this doesn't mean that they don't exist elsewhere. I've used many drill-based materials and FSI was the one I liked least. But there are plenty of wonderful materials that aren't drill-based.

FSI has many fans here. I don't think it makes sense to post such inflammatory messages defending it.

Edited by Serpent on 05 September 2015 at 3:50am

1 person has voted this message useful



Speakeasy
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 3515 days ago

502 posts - 1093 votes 
Studies: German

 
 Message 30 of 35
05 September 2015 at 12:26pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
FSI has many fans here. I don't think it makes sense to post such inflammatory messages defending it.

Speakeasy, see what I mean? I told you to resist the temptation of joining fray. Now, you're being "inflammatory"! Next time, you'll know better.

Edited by Speakeasy on 05 September 2015 at 12:26pm

4 persons have voted this message useful



Elexi
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5028 days ago

938 posts - 1838 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 31 of 35
05 September 2015 at 1:05pm | IP Logged 
The notion of obsolescence in a language course is a relative but interest thing. I am
a great fan of the old BBC courses from the 60s to the 80s. Any specific course
generally gives a large amount of native language only audio in the form of LPs, a
whole series of native language only TV programs (often still available on YouTube) and
communication based instruction coupled with a OKish grammar/exercise book. In all
that is a good amount of comprehensible input.

Most language learners here, I suspect would applaud such courses - however, if
one looks at the reviews on Amazon they generally say 'These courses still use the
Deutsche Mark, so I sent it back - they are useless'. It always surprises me that such
people cannot mentally say 'Euro' instead of 'Mark' and get on doing the exercises.
But language learning can be hard, boring and any path of resistance is enough to
convince people to give up.

Edited by Elexi on 05 September 2015 at 2:49pm

5 persons have voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6060 days ago

9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 32 of 35
05 September 2015 at 5:56pm | IP Logged 
It can be boring but it doesn't have to be.


1 person has voted this message useful



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