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Barrons mastering series | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| ExRN Groupie United Kingdom Joined 3189 days ago 61 posts - 75 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Spanish Studies: Dutch | Message 1 of 5 12 September 2015 at 2:00am | IP Logged | ||
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As we have cleared the FSI German issue in a separate post I would like to ask a few questions about the
barrons mastering series. I can't find much in the line of reviews online so I thought I would ask the experts before importing some of them in from the states. The barrons mastering German 1 and 2 books: Are these direct copies of the original fsi material that has audio available online or are there differences that will make it near on impossible to use without using thetapes as well that aaccompany the series? I have noticed that the Spanish version only has 1 and 2 available on Amazon. Is this the 4 fsi volumes compacted into two books or is it simply fsi level 1 and 2? If the latter is true, we're 3 and 4 ever published and if so where would be a place to purchase them? Do the barrons books have any workbook exercises in for writing practice? Im thinking of something alongthe lines of the assimil ggrammar exercises at the end of each lesson. Also with regards to the German course, I see there are only 24 units of fsi audio as opposed to the ?58? Of Spanish. Is there significant parts missing from the course with reference to grammar that I would need to learn elsewhere? Would the barrons books and fsi audios get me to at least a B2 in all functional skills like the Spanish course? And to finish, were there any other companies other than barrons that reprinted the FSI materials that would be easier to source in the UK instead of purchasing from the states? I don't mind purchasing from the states, don't get me wrong. I just think it would be more convenient to deal domestically when it comesyto purchasing from the internet. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3846 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 2 of 5 12 September 2015 at 3:33am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello ExRN,
First Pass: I have copies of the Barron's Mastering German, Mastering Spanish, and Mastering Italian. I have also inspected the textbooks of Mastering French and Mastering Korean. First, it would appear that Barron's Educational Services published their own editions of a number of FSI Basic or Programmatic courses under their "Mastering" series. In some cases, they re-typeset the original FSI texts, without changes, as for Mastering German. In the case of Mastering Italian, in the process of re-typesetting the original text, they removed some inconsequential material and incorporated the Instructor's Guide directly into the text, where it should have been all along. In the case of Mastering Spanish, as far as I understand, they used a copying process that precluded the laborious re-typesetting. However, in NONE of the courses that I have seen did they AUGMENT the original FSI courses, whether as a matter of dialogues, drills, or other exercises. As to the CD audio recordings, they took the time to split the longer magnetic cassette tape files into smaller segments and they added a few "culture capsules" that are of no consequence. However, the main part of the audio itself was drawn directly from the original FSI recordings. Generally speaking, the recording quality of the Barron's CDs is "no better than" that of the free audio files that are available on the FSI-Language-Courses website. I cannot be certain, but I get the impression that the Mastering Italian audio was re-recorded by Barron's. Finally, it is generally agreed that their "Mastering Japanese" course was a copy of the textbook "Beginning Japanese" by Eleanor Harz Jorden, that had been adopted for use by the FSI, along with a copy of the original recordings, which are reasonably clear. Second Pass: In those cases where Barron's re-typeset the original FSI texts, regrettably, some small typographical errors occurred that were never corrected. Often, these are obvious, minor, and can be simply ignored. Unfortunately, in the case of Mastering German, the errors can lead to confusion. For example, in some of the examples and explanatory notes, "ihn" and "ihm" are misrepresented because of the typographical errors. For the "truly observant" student, who regularly consults a German Grammar, these types of errors might be just an irritation. However, for the novice student, who is relying more-or-less completely on the Barron's text, this does not facilitate the introduction to the vagaries of the German Case System! So, if you choose to purchase the Barron's series, be attentive to the possibility of errors in the textbooks. Third Pass: The question of "which level" can be achieved using the "full" FSI Basic courses is subject to debate. We should bear in mind that the FSI Students received their instruction in a classroom setting, that there were often fewer than eight students per class and that their combined classroom instruction and additional homework amounted to some nine hours per day, spread over a six-month period. I have no doubt that the graduates of the FSI Basic courses finished the programme, on average, at the B2 Level. So, is it "possible" to achieve B2 using "only" the legacy FSI Basic course materials? Well, that's where the "debate" begins! Putting any issues of vocabulary aside for moment, the central issue -- for me -- is the amount of concentrated study-time that one can permit oneself, whether with the FSI materials or with others. I completed the FSI Basic German course, but I certainly did not put in nine hours per day! I would say that my level of "comfort" on completion of the programme was more in the neighborhood of B1 and this mostly because of lack of application on my part. I have a complete copy of the FSI Basic French texts as reissued by Audio Forum, along with audio CDs, which I purchased at bargain-basement prices as they were shutting their operations. My French is at the C2 (plus?) level. My impression is that, assuming that one could actually "survive" the FSI French course, one would merit a B2 Level Certification, if only as a matter of respect. Fourth Pass: It seems that the release of the FSI Basic, Programmatic, and FAST courses by the U.S. Government spawned a whole new, specialized, publishing industry for some or all these materials. I get the impression that only Barron's embarked on a re-typesetting process and that the other publishers employed some form of copying technique, often adding their own name to the textbooks. With the development of websites such as the FSI-Language-Courses database, which offers these materials free-of-charge, it became increasingly difficult for the publishers of the FSI courses to maintain their business model and many have closed operations. Some continue to offer DVD versions, or downloadable versions of the courses at low prices. Two companies continue to offer the courses at fairly high prices. In all cases, with the exception of the "Platiquemos" course, which is a "derivative" of FSI Basic Spanish, the materials are simply the original FSI courses. So, I do not see much advantage in purchasing these versions as the originals are freely available. If you want a printed textbook, simply download the PDF file and ask your local print/copy shop to print it and bind it for you; however, the cost would be in the neighborhood of 80 $US per course manual. Having said that, here are a few organisations that will sell you the, otherwise, free FSI courses: Speed-Learning Languages This company offers, without identifying them, a selection of downloadable FSI courses that have their name imbedded in every page. As a nice touch, they include practice files of 19th classic literature that can be freely downloaded from Librivox. Audio-Forum Audio-Forum ceased operations and was resurrected under a different name, twice, closed again and then re-resurrected under the original name. The new owners still sell the same the materials as published by the original company. I would imagine that their stocks of the printed manuals are dwindling. Multi-lingual Books Multi-lingual Books used to publish their own copy/paste editions of all of the FSI courses. If you contact them, they might be able to dig out some printed copies from the back shed. Otherwise, they offer downloadable copies. Foreign Service Institute (sic) This company, once known as "Plurality Language", used to offer their own copy/paste editions of all of the original FSI courses. Perhaps they, too, have some older printed copies available. Otherwise, they offer downloadable versions. Amazon, Alibris, AbeBooks, EBay, etcetera. From time-to-time, a small bookstore will receive printed copies of the original FSI textbooks and will advertise them for sale on the big online booksellers' websites. Otherwise, the printed versions would be the Barron's Mastering Series. I hope that this answered all of, or at least some of, your questions. Edited by Speakeasy on 12 September 2015 at 3:42am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ExRN Groupie United Kingdom Joined 3189 days ago 61 posts - 75 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, Spanish Studies: Dutch | Message 3 of 5 12 September 2015 at 3:43am | IP Logged | ||
Love you man. Thats pretty much all I needed to know. I heard the Italian course was garbage though, hence why I didn't ask about it. How much truth is in that statement? In addition, I will have more than 9 hours per day in a week as I start university. The course is purely language with Italian German and Spanish spread evenly. I want to keep my materials pretty similar if I can so was considering the fsi route properly on German and Spanish and redoing the assimil Italian stuff so I internalise it better. If the FSI Italian is OK though I will go with that. Edited by ExRN on 12 September 2015 at 3:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3846 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 4 of 5 12 September 2015 at 4:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Re-bonjour mon cher ExRN,
There are two/three FSI Italian courses that I am aware of. Oddly, it seems that the FSI never got around to publishing an FSI-Basic-style of course for Italian, as had been done for German, French, Spanish, and etcetera. There is, or used to be, a PDF file on the ERIC website, that seems to be the precursor of an FSI Basic-style Italian course. Comments here on the HTLAL seem to be of the order of "Oh, that looks interesting, it's a shame that we cannot locate the audio." After several previous unsuccessful attempts, I finally forced myself to complete the "FSI Programmatic Italian" course earlier this year. I dare you -- no -- I double-dog dare you to do likewise! What astonishes me the most about this course is, given that (a) the FSI Programmatic courses for Spanish, Portuguese, and German are all fairly well designed and are quite useable, provided you adapt to the teaching method, the (b) unsoundable depth of misapplication of the programmed style of teaching by the author of this text, and that (c) someone, somewhere in the FSI hierarchy, actually approved it for publication! I CAN recommend this course, but ONLY as a replacement to "water-boarding"! I have begun, but have not yet completed, the "FSI Italian FAST" course. Most of the FSI FAST courses that I have come across are at once elementary and cursory. The FSI Italian FAST is an exception in that it is vastly more extensive. Furthermore, it has much more exercise material than was included in the FAST courses for the other languages. I get the impression that this course is (just about) the equivalent of the combined Living Language Ultimate Italian courses (Beginners-Intermediate-Advanced) in terms of vocabulary, grammar, and etcetera. The only element missing, given that the course was designed for classroom use, would be fuller explanations of Italian grammar, but that can be overcome through the purchase of a simple grammar. NOTE CAREFULLY: The FSI Italian FAST course DOES NOT employ the massive sentence-pattern drills as used in the FSI BASIC courses. Yes, it does include a lot of exercise material, but it is of a somewhat different nature. Also, the dialogues are delivered at-what-must-be very close to native-speaker speed, which can be a little jarring, at first. This course is worthy of consideration. Gotta run! Ex-RCN Edited by Speakeasy on 12 September 2015 at 4:39pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3846 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 5 of 5 12 September 2015 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | ||
I just took a quick tour of Audio-Forum and of the above-named online bookstores. First, you should be aware that, for reasons that escape me, Audio-Forum published printed copies of the original two volume FSI Basic German course in three volumes: Volume contains Units 1-6, Volume 2 contains Units 7-12, and Volume 3 contains Units 13-24. The Audio-Forum website presently offers printed copies of Volumes 1&2 at 49.95 $US each. At these prices, it would probably be less expensive to have your local print/copy shop print and bind the volumes for you. Second, the editions of the FSI Basic German course that are presently available on the above-named bookstores seem to be, for the most part, either the Audio-Forum editions, or other DVD (print yourself) editions. So, presently, there isn't much out there. You might enquire of either Multilingual Books or Foreign Service Institute (sic) as to their having some printed copies in stock. Also, I noticed that one reseller offers a "print on command" service for the FSI Basic German texts; however, you can get this done locally, nicht wahr? Edited by Speakeasy on 12 September 2015 at 5:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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