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Accusative marker | ||
Tags: Grammar | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Philological Room |  | |
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6433 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 9 of 22 11 October 2006 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | ||
I have a topic for it at [Philological Room : What Persian shares] 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6967 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 10 of 22 11 October 2006 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | ||
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In Hungarian
két könyv = "two book" sok könyv = "many book" néhány könyv = "a few book", "some book" több könyv = "more book" Compare Slovak vs. Hungarian: vel'ká kniha je dobrá = nagy könyv jó = a big book is good. vel'ké knihy sú dobré = nagy könyvek jók = big books are good kniha je vel'ká = a könyv nagy = the book is big. knihy sú vel'ké = a könyvek nagyok = the books are big. dve knihy sú vel'ké = két könyv nagy = two books are big. sto kníh je vel'ké = száz könyv nagy = 100 books are big. (Slovak like most Slavonic languages is a little different, since numbers greater than 4 that qualify nouns 1) govern the genitive plural, 2) but then lead to verbal conjugations in the 3rd person neuter singular!) In any case, adjectives in Slovak must conform to the noun's case and number. In Hungarian, adjectives that are used as predicates (2nd set of examples) must conform to the number of the nouns. It seems redundant to Hungarians if the noun would be plural when the qualifier is already plural. But this rule of "non-redundancy" doesn't apply in every case. Edited by Chung on 11 October 2006 at 3:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6433 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 11 of 22 11 October 2006 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you very much!
In Persian, we say: one/two/three... book (the number refers plurality) this books vs. this two book (we have just this and that as demonstrative adj. so the noun denotes plurality) all books (all is indefinite so book comes in plural) Edited by Alijsh on 11 October 2006 at 11:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Andy E Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6914 days ago 1651 posts - 1939 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French | Message 12 of 22 12 October 2006 at 1:54am | IP Logged | ||
I disagree. The point about language convergence - and it is not limited to languages of the same family is that the feature may be borrowed not the marker itself. In other words, we are not talking about a loanword here. Granted, as it also appears in Middle Persian then Turkish is not going to be the reason it appears in modern Persian. Andy. Edited by Andy E on 12 October 2006 at 2:01am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 6433 days ago 149 posts - 167 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 13 of 22 12 October 2006 at 3:05am | IP Logged | ||
I didn't have any information about it yet I thought it must not be seen in languages of different family. That's why I use "suppose" in the later post. So it's seen, thanks for bringing me out of mistake. If you are interested in, I have found the origin of râ. In old Persian râdiy was used to talk about reason, cause etc. râdiy is locative form of râd that has become râ in Middle Persian. Edited by Alijsh on 12 October 2006 at 3:58am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| alexptrans Pentaglot Senior Member Israel Joined 6576 days ago 208 posts - 236 votes Speaks: English, Modern Hebrew, Russian*, French, Arabic (Written) Studies: Icelandic | Message 14 of 22 12 October 2006 at 6:28am | IP Logged | ||
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There is an accusative marker in Hebrew as well: "et". What is interesting is that this accusative marker is only used with definite nouns, for example:
Raiti delet I saw a door Raiti et hadelet I saw the door ("ha" is the definite article) I wonder if any other language makes such a distinction between definite/indefinite accusatives. Edited by alexptrans on 12 October 2006 at 6:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| alexptrans Pentaglot Senior Member Israel Joined 6576 days ago 208 posts - 236 votes Speaks: English, Modern Hebrew, Russian*, French, Arabic (Written) Studies: Icelandic | Message 15 of 22 12 October 2006 at 6:34am | IP Logged | ||
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Grammatical features may be borrowed between languages from different families. For example, the Turkish profession marker çı or çi (balık=fish, balıkçı=fisherman) also appears in spoken Arabic (hudarji=grocer, bustaji=mailman, etc).
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Zorndyke Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6769 days ago 374 posts - 382 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Czech | Message 16 of 22 12 October 2006 at 7:20am | IP Logged | ||
I know such a language: Persian ;-) Edited by Zorndyke on 12 October 2006 at 7:21am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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