To Improve speaking? (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

To Improve speaking?
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12 messages over 2 pages: 1 2 Next >>

CaoMei513
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6847 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Mandarin, Korean

Message 1 of 12

17 November 2006 at 9:41pm | IP Logged

Well lately in my Mandarin studies, I have been trying so hard to raise my listening skills to a passable level that my speaking has fallen way behind. My pronunciation is good, but for example even if I know how to express my ideas with a good structure I forget and I say it very basic. Its hard to explain. I just cant remember the words or grammatical structures that I know.

Is the only way to fix this is to just speak? There has to be more to it.

um, Thanks

Edited by CaoMei513 on 17 November 2006 at 9:42pm
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Keith
Diglot
Moderator
JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Message 2 of 12

18 November 2006 at 2:37am | IP Logged

Quote:

even if I know how to express my ideas with a good structure I forget and I say it very basic. Its hard to explain. I just cant remember the words or grammatical structures that I know.

This is where overlearning comes to the rescue.
It might not be your style but it will never fail you.

Exactly what you have explained is the evidence of
why it doesn't do us much good to know a lot but only
be able to use a little.

If you do decide to go with overlearning,
be aware that it has to be kept up over a longer
period to be really effective. Read the following
quote taken from this article on overlearning.

Quote:

Studies show that if material is studied for one semester or one year, it will be retained adequately for perhaps a year after the last practice (Semb, Ellis, & Araujo, 1993), but most of it will be forgotten by the end of three or four years in the absence of further practice. If material is studied for three or four years, however, the learning may be retained for as long as 50 years after the last practice (Bahrick, 1984; Bahrick & Hall, 1991). There is some forgetting over the first five years, but after that, forgetting stops and the remainder will not be forgotten even if it is not practiced again. Researchers have examined a large number of variables that potentially could account for why research subjects forgot or failed to forget material, and they concluded that the key variable in very long-term memory was practice.*(see below *) Exactly what knowledge will be retained over the long-term has not been examined in detail, but it is reasonable to suppose that it is the material that overlaps multiple courses of study: Students who study American history for four years will retain the facts and themes that came up again and again in their history courses.

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kinoko
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 6638 days ago
103 posts - 109 votes

Speaks: Italian*, English, Japanese, Spanish
Studies: German

Message 3 of 12

19 November 2006 at 7:42am | IP Logged

the principle of overlearning is maybe the single most important learning tool in my arsenal when it comes to learning japanese.

as i write down from 50 to 70 new words every day and try to memorize them following the leitner curve of repetition, I kind of find important vocabulary left behind in my word lists. when I come across a world I have already written down but not yet incorporated I write it down again and restudy again as a new one, as if I had never found it before. this double learning is what made me actively remember most of the vocabulary I use in conversation.

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CaoMei513
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6847 days ago
110 posts - 113 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Mandarin, Korean

Message 4 of 12

19 November 2006 at 7:47pm | IP Logged

Wow both of these methods sound very interesting and useful. However could someone provide further explaination as to how I would do these methods?

Sorry for all the questions,
Christina

PS- KINOKO, do you really learn 50 to 70 words A DAY? Thats amazing! Do you really retain them all?

Edited by CaoMei513 on 19 November 2006 at 7:57pm
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Polyglot2005
Senior Member
United States
Joined 7190 days ago
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Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 5 of 12

20 November 2006 at 10:21am | IP Logged

That overlearning quote is interesting.I remember seeing graphs of how quickly we forget something we have memorized and the graph showed optimal review/refresh sessions and how to transfer the information to your longterm memory. I will try to find the graph and post it if/when i do.
1 person has voted this message useful

slucido
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
Spain
https://goo.gl/126Yv
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Message 6 of 12

02 March 2008 at 5:07pm | IP Logged

It's much more important spaced repetition than overlearning.
Be careful.

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Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6441 days ago
4474 posts - 6726 votes

Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

Message 7 of 12

02 March 2008 at 5:21pm | IP Logged

slucido wrote:

It's much more important spaced repetition than overlearning.

Citations? I'd appreciate knowing your sources.

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slucido
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
Spain
https://goo.gl/126Yv
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Message 8 of 12

02 March 2008 at 5:45pm | IP Logged

Volte wrote:

slucido wrote:

It's much more important spaced repetition than overlearning.

Citations? I'd appreciate knowing your sources.

Here they are:

The effect of overlearning on long-term retention

http://www.pashler.com/Articles/Rohrer_etal_AppliedCog2005.p df

The effects of overlearning and distributed practise on the on the Retention of Mathematics Knowledge

http://uweb.cas.usf.edu/~drohrer/pdfs/Rohrer&Taylor2006ACP.p df

The Effects of Overlearning on Long-Term Retention

http://purl.fcla.edu/fcla/etd/SFE0000321

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