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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| gidler Senior Member Finland Joined 6405 days ago 109 posts - 118 votes  1 sounds Speaks: Finnish* | Message 49 of 141 30 January 2007 at 12:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I think I almost always use "kahesyhes". :) And well done pointing out the few things in Serpent's speech sample that give away that the speaker isn't native. I listened to it several times but wasn't able to put my thoughts in words. Edited by gidler on 30 January 2007 at 12:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 50 of 141 31 January 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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:) I just said (in Russian) I had eaten a medicine for sore throat, meaning I took the medicine. And I've noticed I started to pronounce n the Finnish way in Russian occasionally :D I hope I won't forget my mother tongue:)
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 51 of 141 03 February 2007 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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Some more questions...
These sentences are from that German texbook: Milloin hän on tavattavissa? Se ei ole vielä sanottavissa. Juomia on aina saatavilla. I didn't know adessive could be used in such sentences. Is there any difference? when should I use inessive and when adessive? Is Juomia on aina saatavissa wrong? and the same adessive/inessive question about these expressions: jossain määrin, suuressa määrin, tällä tavoin and others with instructive. Also, do these sentences: tulin ostaneeksi kirjan hän tuli nyt valituksi mean the same as Ostin kirjan Hänet (nyt) valittiin ? Is there any difference? And I don't get these parts from a text about puhekieli:( Tuleeko tämä uusi kieli löymään vanhan laudaltaan, ei ole noin vaan sanottavissa. Se on työlästä kirjoittaa ja vaatii hyvän vireen . . . Kielen kehityksen tasalla pysyy, kun elää tässä yhteisössä ja maailmassa eikä estä itseään muuttumasta sen mukana eristäytymällä. This sentence is also confusing :? Mennen tullen kävimme myös Lahdessa. Why is the object in nominative in this sentence??? Onko mahdollista vuokrata autopuhelin? (from Teach yourself) Edited by Serpent on 03 February 2007 at 3:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6676 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 52 of 141 03 February 2007 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
I dont know the rules for this, but "Juomia on saatavissa" is not wrong, just a little unusual, and different in emphasis. This is sort of hard to explain, but to my mind "saatavilla" emphasises the fact that some kind of arrangements have been made for the purpose of making the drinks available to you, such as having them close at hand or visible in some way. But I look forward to being corrected on this, or at least if someone can give a more complete explanation.
I am not sure what you are asking here, but for the last one you could use "tällä tavalla" instead (compare also "jollain tavoin" and "jollakin tavalla"). For the other two I can't think of an alternative way of saying them.
They are close in meaning but with a shift in emphasis: "Ostin kirjan" just states the fact "I bought the book". "Tulin ostaneeksi kirjan" means the same but makes it a little vague, like "I just happened to buy the book" without having necessarily planned to buy it, or without a specific purpose. Hän tuli valituksi = Hänet valittiin - no real difference there, just a statement of fact "he was elected". But if you add "nyt", and especially if you add "nyt vaan" in the middle, in both those sentences, it can be interpreted as a touch of vagueness, like "it just so happens that he was elected", or maybe there were many reasons against it but he was elected anyway. EDIT: But if you have a "nyt" at the beginning or at the end of that sentence rather than in the middle, then it is more neutral in meaning and in most cases just means "now".
Correction: "lyömään". And also, "laudaltaan" is a little strange there. Normally you use "lyödä laudalta". The part in bold translates (approximately) as: It is cumbersome to write and requires (you) to be in good form.
The bold part means: You stay abreast of the development of language, by living ...
"mennen tullen" - "going and coming". In that context it must mean that they passed through Lahti on the way out as well as back. EDIT: Ah, there is another possibility: they just went to Lahti for a very brief visit. Without more context it is not clear which meaning applies here. You usually hear "mennen tullen" in a context like "A hakkaa B:n mennen tullen" - "A beats B very easily". You hear it about sports or virtually anything - and it is like saying that one team, or person, or product or idea or whatever is miles ahead and above the competition.
Not sure what the rule says, but it has to be that form. If you were expecting "autopuhelimen", that would be wrong. Edited by Hencke on 03 February 2007 at 7:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| gidler Senior Member Finland Joined 6405 days ago 109 posts - 118 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Finnish* | Message 53 of 141 04 February 2007 at 12:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
"Autopuhelinta" works too (at least in my opinion). I thought I sensed a subtle difference in meaning but wasn't able to construct an example where it would show. EDIT: Just for the sake of clarity, you must say "vuokrasin autopuhelimen". There are no other possible forms in this case. Edited by gidler on 04 February 2007 at 12:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6676 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 54 of 141 04 February 2007 at 6:04am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Yes, and I agree the difference is subtle and hard to put your finger on. But I think you would use "autopuhelinta" to refer to a specific mobile phone - "Is it possible to rent that specific one?", whereas "autopuhelin" is just about renting a phone in general.
True, and the reason is that there is no uncertainty in the statement any more: you have already rented it, so it is no longer uncertain whether it was possible or not, as it still was when you were asking about it above. And since you already have it in your hand it is a specific phone, not just any phone. Both these reasons combine to make "puhelimen" the only choice. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||
| gidler Senior Member Finland Joined 6405 days ago 109 posts - 118 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Finnish* | Message 55 of 141 04 February 2007 at 8:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
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It truly is amazing how all that deduction is done automatically by our brains. :)
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6379 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 56 of 141 04 February 2007 at 9:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||
Thank you so much, Hencke and Gidler!!! 
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