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Aineko
Triglot
Senior Member
New Zealand
Joined 5459 days ago

238 posts - 442 votes 
Speaks: Serbian*, EnglishC2, Spanish
Studies: Russian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin

 
 Message 41 of 96
09 March 2011 at 12:36am | IP Logged 
bushwick wrote:
Maks is not here to discourage people. Whatever Maks is, be it Serbian
or Croatian, he is simply your everyday nationalist...

who also lacks relevant info :). I've never heard a single Serb pronouncing Barbara as
'Varvara' or calling zamrzivac a 'friz' (and few more examples from his list, too).
1 person has voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
Senior Member
Joined 7167 days ago

4228 posts - 8259 votes 
20 sounds
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 42 of 96
09 March 2011 at 1:10am | IP Logged 
Maks wrote:
I do not agree with your views, you are obviously misinformed.
I live here and know very well what I say, Croatian and Serbian are two very different languages in which there is understanding, but it is limited. Take the example of the calendar, it is totally different, 95% Croats can not read Serbian language in Cyrillic. 1 / 3 vocabulary is different, and much of the unintelligible words, sentence structures are different.

Seek professional help:
http://www.ihjj.hr/index_en.html


Of course about 99%+ of Croats (let's not count illiterates and the blind, OK?) can read (and understand fully) Serbian in the Latinic alphabet, and virtually all Croats of at least average intelligence can get over the bump of lexical and morphological differences.

Do you mean to say that you are genuinely befuddled or need a translator when someone says "šargarepa" instead of "mrkva" or "idem da spavam" rather than "idem spavati"? That reminds me a lot of Vojislav Šešelj who tried to invalidate the International War Crimes' indictment of his guilt by pretending that he couldn't understand the indictment because it wasn't in "Serbian" but rather in "BCS".
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Merv
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5284 days ago

414 posts - 749 votes 
Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian*
Studies: Spanish, French

 
 Message 43 of 96
09 March 2011 at 3:42am | IP Logged 
Aineko wrote:
espfutbol98 wrote:

bre-ONLY serbian, slang for "man", "friend"

ahm...no, not even close. It's a word that is kind of used to emphasize your point. For
example "Daj, bre!" is something like "Oh, come on!", or "'de ces, bre?" is like "Where
do you think you are going?" etc.


Bre comes from the Greek "more" which roughly means stupid or silly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re_(exclamation)
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Merv
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5284 days ago

414 posts - 749 votes 
Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian*
Studies: Spanish, French

 
 Message 44 of 96
09 March 2011 at 3:43am | IP Logged 
Aineko wrote:
bushwick wrote:
Maks is not here to discourage people. Whatever Maks is, be it Serbian
or Croatian, he is simply your everyday nationalist...

who also lacks relevant info :). I've never heard a single Serb pronouncing Barbara as
'Varvara' or calling zamrzivac a 'friz' (and few more examples from his list, too).


Agreed. While Serbian would have Vizantija, it's conceivable that many today would call Babylon "Babilon" rather
than the proper "Vavilon"
1 person has voted this message useful



Merv
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5284 days ago

414 posts - 749 votes 
Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian*
Studies: Spanish, French

 
 Message 45 of 96
09 March 2011 at 3:47am | IP Logged 
Maks wrote:
I do not agree with your views, you are obviously misinformed.
I live here and know very well what I say, Croatian and Serbian are two very different languages in which there is
understanding, but it is limited. Take the example of the calendar, it is totally different, 95% Croats can not read
Serbian language in Cyrillic. 1 / 3 vocabulary is different, and much of the unintelligible words, sentence
structures are different.

Seek professional help:
http://www.ihjj.hr/index_en.html


Nonsense. My father was born and spent the first 8 years of his life in Belgrade. He then lived in Zagreb until his
20s. He never had to learn another language. He just switched his ekavian to ijekavian and used the Croat version
of common variants (tjedan, tijekom, tocka, etc.) When he moved back to Belgrade in his mid 20s he easily
shifted back to ekavian and the Serb variants.

What you are saying is rooted not in reality but in nationalism. Here's a hint: saying that they are the same
language doesn't invalidate your sense of Croatness or the legitimacy of your national sentiment. Not every
nation has to have a distinct language from all others (i.e. Americans vs. English vs. Australians) to be valid.
1 person has voted this message useful



espfutbol98
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 5023 days ago

7 posts - 8 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Serbo-Croatian, Albanian, Russian, German

 
 Message 46 of 96
09 March 2011 at 6:38am | IP Logged 
Aineko wrote:
espfutbol98 wrote:

bre-ONLY serbian, slang for "man", "friend"

ahm...no, not even close. It's a word that is kind of used to emphasize your point. For
example "Daj, bre!" is something like "Oh, come on!", or "'de ces, bre?" is like "Where
do you think you are going?" etc.


I guess I didn't explain it too well but that's what I was getting at. I was using it in the since "come'on, man" (which is the same meaning you explained), not as a way to refer to a person.
1 person has voted this message useful



Maks
Newbie
Croatia
Joined 5022 days ago

15 posts - 9 votes

 
 Message 47 of 96
09 March 2011 at 10:08am | IP Logged 
Merv wrote:
Maks wrote:
I do not agree with your views, you are obviously misinformed.
I live here and know very well what I say, Croatian and Serbian are two very different languages in which there is
understanding, but it is limited. Take the example of the calendar, it is totally different, 95% Croats can not read
Serbian language in Cyrillic. 1 / 3 vocabulary is different, and much of the unintelligible words, sentence
structures are different.

Seek professional help:
http://www.ihjj.hr/index_en.html



Nonsense. My father was born and spent the first 8 years of his life in Belgrade. He then lived in Zagreb until his
20s. He never had to learn another language. He just switched his ekavian to ijekavian and used the Croat version
of common variants (tjedan, tijekom, tocka, etc.) When he moved back to Belgrade in his mid 20s he easily
shifted back to ekavian and the Serb variants.

What you are saying is rooted not in reality but in nationalism. Here's a hint: saying that they are the same
language doesn't invalidate your sense of Croatness or the legitimacy of your national sentiment. Not every
nation has to have a distinct language from all others (i.e. Americans vs. English vs. Australians) to be valid.


That's not true, maybe the former Yugoslavia, it was possible but now no longer. During 70 years of Yugoslavia Yugoslav Unitarian an emphasis on reducing the differences between the Croatian and Serbian, Croatian banned many special features, particularly the words and traditions.
Therefore, the Yugoslav Unitarian written literature that is not true to justify it, today many foreigners who read the literature they have forged a wrong picture about the real situation.

I wish to explain that in the last 20 years of democracy things really have changed, Serbian and Croatian have turned every man to his different linguistic traditions, because these differences today far surpass those of 20 years ago.

It is really funny when you mention the differences in the variant of English, Spanish or Portuguese.

Croatian language also has such internal differences that are linguistically could say that Croatiančakavian, Croatiankajkavian and Croatianštokavian 3 variant of Croatian language.

Croatian language is not Štokavian dialect, it is a mix of all three Croatian dialects that are styled on stokavian.

I am not a nationalist, I love their tradition and respect of others.
1 person has voted this message useful



bushwick
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
Joined 6255 days ago

407 posts - 443 votes 
Speaks: German, Croatian*, English, Dutch
Studies: French, Japanese

 
 Message 48 of 96
09 March 2011 at 10:46am | IP Logged 
Sure, but please do explain why do you go through the trouble of calling it "croatiančakavian". Visit one of the islands, hell, go to bigger places, like Rijeka, and speak to older people not affected by the rapid shift to štokavski, and you'll sweat blood trying to understand them.

is that a different language? Your system of classification is exactly what you espouse, Croatian, Serbian bla bla, you classify based on borders, not on common intellect.

Yes, things have changed in the last 20 years. The Croatian Academy invented new words, and generally, "official" Croatian uses less borrowings than Serbian. And yes, I prefer nogomet, to "fudbal" but do not forget that recommendations by official institutions do not reflect standard language, not to mention the questionable role of language institutes anyway, but that colloquial language still will be always different. I may yell avion and vešmašina, as much as I want, and no "scholar" can tell me how it is wrong, no matter that I will make an effort to write zrakoplov or perilica.

But any Serbian or Croatian, or whatever, will in any case understand what a zrakoplov or perilica is. It doesn't matter that the dictionary is different. There's dictionaries of ćakavian dialects; because 2/3 of words in those are different, do you suddenly deal with a different language and you need a translation? No, you don't.

You'll have trouble, because you deal with a peculiar and interesting language that on a relatively small geographical area reflects beautiful differences in area, religion and whatever else might be the cause for differentiation.

It's pretty cool actually. And I have no problem that these languages are called Serbian or Croatian, but I am more annoyed how you justify these differences, and what your agenda here is, which is basically to spread false rumours.

And if it means anything to you; I'm also from Croatia, lived there for 11 years, from my 8th to my 19th birthday. I'm 20 now, so I am one those "younger generations" you mention, but I absolutely never had a problem. It took me 2 hours to learn cyrillic, and all of a sudden I was literate in Serbian.

phew :D


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