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Chinese Language vs. Dialects | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Raincrowlee Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 6345 days ago 621 posts - 808 votes  Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Indonesian, Japanese | Message 17 of 37 14 February 2007 at 6:21am | IP Logged | |||||
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I actually wonder if being able to read means much in terms of whether or not they are the same language, because to a certain degree, you can read Japanese and understand it, or old Korean texts printed in Chinese characters, can't you? There's no way you'd say that they're related languages.
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| glossika Super Polyglot Pro Member China english.glossika.com Joined 6179 days ago 45 posts - 72 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written) Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 37 15 February 2007 at 5:00am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, you are right. The Chinese insist on Putonghua普通話 as the universal language. However, the Chinese use the term fangyan方言 to refer to the various languages around China. This is incorrectly translated into English as "dialect". It should be "topolect". 方 means topo- and 言 means -lect as used in the way English makes compound nouns. Making everybody speak Putonghua is the basic minimum, because EVEN with that, it's still hard to communicate. I have thousands of real-life examples. But a more recent one: I just met a man from Bozhou亳州 (Anhui) on the train and although he claimed to speak Putonghua, I could barely understand him. Sure, he was speaking Putonghua with his regional accent and everybody does that, and it really makes it hard to understand people. What he means is that he's using Putonghua grammar/syntax and vocabulary, that way I can understand him. However, what he's not doing is using the same phonology and that makes it hard. I know that the 土話 in Bozhou, Anhui is actually a Mandarin dialect. However, think for a moment if this guy spoke to me in his own 土話 not just using his phonology, but also using the local, regional vocabulary/slang and syntax. Would I understand him? Well, probably most likely definitely absolutely not. Unless I recognized some terms similar to other main languages I've learned around China. But that's simply an area I'm just not familiar with and I'd only be guessing. And he was born a Mandarin speaker! I actually try to record people and the conversations I have with them as much as possible because it's really neat to listen to them later. Everybody I meet I ask them where they're from because it's always different and interesting and I can always find out something new. Edited by glossika on 15 February 2007 at 5:03am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxb Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6826 days ago 536 posts - 589 votes 7 sounds Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 19 of 37 15 February 2007 at 7:52am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree. You could probably write English with chinese characters if you wanted to. How about the following 我有都道是入特休过入外因语言们 我 = I 有 = have 都 = all 道 = ways 是 = been 入 = in 特 = te 休 = rest 过 = ed 入 = in 外 = fo 因 = reign (rin) 语 = lan 言 = guage 们 = es 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| maxb Diglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6826 days ago 536 posts - 589 votes 7 sounds Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: Mandarin | Message 20 of 37 15 February 2007 at 8:01am | IP Logged | |||||
Slowly, because I am not spending much time at it. I am just learning a sentence a day at the moment with the chorus method. However I am also learning it as an experiment to see if you can pick up a tonal language totally by ear. I.e. pick up the tones just by hearing and imitating them instead of someone telling that you are supposed to hear a falling tone followed by a midlevel tone followed by a high tone..... I plan to learn cantonese by listening and imitating as much as possible. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| knewman Groupie China Joined 6451 days ago 44 posts - 41 votes Speaks: Mandarin* Studies: English | Message 21 of 37 17 February 2007 at 12:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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现在中文在大陆基本普及了mandarin
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| patuco Diglot Moderator Gibraltar Joined 6658 days ago 3795 posts - 4268 votes Speaks: Spanish, English* Personal Language Map | Message 22 of 37 17 February 2007 at 8:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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English please or provide a translation. Not everyone who's reading this understands what you've written.
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| glossika Super Polyglot Pro Member China english.glossika.com Joined 6179 days ago 45 posts - 72 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written) Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 37 17 February 2007 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't necessarily agree. But that seems to be the trend.
Enforcing certain language use on others is an abuse of their basic linguistic rights. That person's profile says a native Mandarin speaker learning English. Edited by glossika on 18 February 2007 at 12:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Journeyer Triglot Senior Member United States tristan85.blogspot.c Joined 6511 days ago 946 posts - 1110 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German Studies: Sign Language | Message 24 of 37 17 February 2007 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
I mean this with respect, definitely not as a reprimand. :-) You are right that this is a language forum, so of course there will be, and should be, I think, other languages used here. But the common denominator here, besides that a love of language, is a common language, and that's why I think Patuco was asking for an English translation. It's not meant to be rude, and it is not at all meant to be oppressive or enforcing of English or any other language. It's simply meant to not exclude others who might not speak the language in question. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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