Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Chinese Language vs. Dialects

 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
37 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 35  Next >>
glossika
Super Polyglot
Pro Member
China
english.glossika.com
Joined 4845 days ago

45 posts - 72 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian
Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written)
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 25 of 37
18 February 2007 at 12:28am | IP Logged 
Thanks for the suggestion.

1 person has voted this message useful



patuco
Diglot
Moderator
Gibraltar
Joined 5324 days ago

3795 posts - 4268 votes 
Speaks: Spanish, English*
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 26 of 37
18 February 2007 at 6:00am | IP Logged 
glossika wrote:
patuco wrote:

English please or provide a translation. Not everyone who's reading this understands what you've written.


Enforcing certain language use on others is an abuse of their basic linguistic rights.

Now I have heard it all!

It's very simple: the forum rules say that all posts should be in English, unless they are written in a specific language sub-forum. Otherwise a translation should be provided.



glossika wrote:
That person's profile says a native Mandarin speaker learning English.

Perhaps he should then use this opportunity to practice his English.

Edited by patuco on 18 February 2007 at 6:00am

1 person has voted this message useful



glossika
Super Polyglot
Pro Member
China
english.glossika.com
Joined 4845 days ago

45 posts - 72 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian
Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written)
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 27 of 37
18 February 2007 at 6:31am | IP Logged 
Sorry, Patuco, I didn't realize somebody had changed the rules to linguistic rights. To the point, I can understand such a rule existing say, in a forum about setting up a database on your server where everybody involved in those discussions are/have been consistently using one language to communicate. Suddenly somebody asks a question in Chinese, and nobody has a clue what just happened.
However, I can see from languages listed under everybody's names in this forum that this is a place about languages where many polyglots assemble and discuss things. I find it an absurd rule that only English is allowed. Am I the only one who f els this way?



1 person has voted this message useful



glossika
Super Polyglot
Pro Member
China
english.glossika.com
Joined 4845 days ago

45 posts - 72 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian
Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written)
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 28 of 37
18 February 2007 at 6:35am | IP Logged 
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!

Getting back to the topics about Chinese languages and dialects, this is for solidsnake.

And probably much to the horror of the other forum members, I'm not going to translate it into English.

I've made two lists that you can reference. This is mainly to help you start acquiring the pronunciations of Cantonese more easily by learning through patterning.

The first list is of the pronunciations in Ancient Chinese, and the second list is how they're pronounced in Cantonese today.

Old Chinese List of Rusheng Characters by Category:

K
-uk: 谷 轂 穀 哭 斛 屋 祿 鹿 轆 碌 禿 獨 瀆 犢 牘 讀 讟 族 速 卜 撲 木 沐
-iuk: 菊 畜 竹 築 逐 縮 祝 粥 叔 淑 熟 肉 陸 六 戮 肅 夙 宿 福 幅 蝠 輻 複 腹 覆 服 伏 復 目 穆 牧
-uok: 酷 篤 督 毒 僕
-iuok: 曲 局 獄 玉 欲 慾 燭 屬 囑 觸 贖 束 蜀 辱 褥 綠 錄 足 促 俗 續
-ok: 覺 角 確 殼 嶽 學 握 卓 琢 濯 濁 捉 朔 駁 剝 樸 雹

T
-iɪt, -iet: 吉 一 乙 逸 窒 姪 質 實 失 室 日 栗 慄 七 漆 疾 悉 膝 畢 必 筆 匹 弼 蜜 密 訖
-iuɪt: 橘 出 術 述 律 戌 恤
-et: 瑟
-iuət: 屈 掘 鬱 弗 彿 拂 佛 勿 物
-iət: 乞 迄
-uət: 骨 窟 忽 笏 突 卒 猝 脖 餑 沒
-iɑt: 訐 歇 謁
-iuɑt: 闕 月 越 曰 鉞 發 髮 伐 筏 罰 襪
-ɑt: 葛 割 渴 曷 蝎 褐 辣 撻 獺 達
-uɑt: 闊 豁 活 捋 掇 脫 奪 撮 砵 撥 潑 鈸 末 沫 抹
-æt: 瞎 轄
-uæt: 刮
-at: 札 扎 紮 察 殺
-at: 滑 猾 刷 八 拔
-iɛt: 結 潔 臬 噎 鐵 迭 跌 節 切 沏 竊 截 瞥 蔑
-iuɛt: 決 訣 缺 血 穴
-iɛt: 傑 孽 徹 撤 澈 折 掣 舌 設 熱 列 烈 裂 褻 別 滅
-iuæt: 悅 閱 拙 說 劣 絕 雪

K
-iɑk: 腳 卻 瘧 虐 約 藥 鑰 酌 勺 綽 若 弱 略 掠 爵 雀 鵲 嚼 削 縛
-iuɑk: 懼
-ɑk: 各 閣 胳 壑 鶴 惡 諾 絡 樂 烙 落 駱 酪 託 鐸 作 錯 昨 鑿 索 博 薄 泊 漠 莫 膜 幕 寞
-uɑk: 槨 郭 擴
-ak: 格 客 額 赫 澤 擇 宅 窄 百 柏 伯 迫 拍 珀 魄 白

-æk: 革 隔 核 覈 軛 摘 責 策 柵
-uæk: 獲 麥 脈
-iæk: 益 縊 疫 役 亦 譯 驛 奕 擲 隻 炙 尺 斥 赤 適 螫 釋 石 積 跡 脊 籍 惜 昔 席 夕 碧 僻 擗 闢
-iɛk: 擊 激 溺 歷 滴 的 嫡 剔 易 敵 狄 笛 績 戚 寂 錫 壁 璧 霹 劈 覓
-iek: 棘 極 抑 億 憶 弋 翼 敕 飭 直 側 測 惻 色 穡 嗇 織 職 食 識 式 拭 飾 匿 力 即 媳 息 逼
-iuek: 域
-ək: 刻 剋 克 黑 勒 肋 得 德 忒 特 則 賊 塞 北 默 墨
-uək: 國 或 惑

P
-iɪp: 急 汲 給 級 泣 濇 執 汁 溼 十 什 拾 入 立 粒 葺 集 習 襲
-iep: 吸 邑 泣 揖 翕 歙
-əp: 蛤 盒 納 拉 答 搭 踏 雜
-ɑp: 臘 蠟 擸 塔 塌 榻 磕
-iæp: 葉 摺 涉 獵 接 妾 捷
-iɛp: 頰 協 俠 挾 捻 帖 貼 疊 牒 蝶
-æp: 夾 袷 掐 恰 狹 插 霎 劄
-ap: 甲 狎 匣 鴨 閘 押 壓
-iɑp: 劫 怯 業 脅
-iuɑp: 法 乏

Cantonese List of Rusheng Characters by Category (Guangzhou Yue):

K
-ʊk: 谷 轂 穀 哭 斛 屋 祿 鹿 轆 碌 禿 獨 瀆 犢 牘 讀 讟 族 速 卜 撲 木 沐
-ʊk: 菊 畜 竹 築 逐 縮 祝 粥 叔 淑 熟 肉 陸 六 戮 肅 夙 宿 福 幅 蝠 輻 複 腹 覆 服 伏 復 目 穆 牧
-ʊk: 酷 篤 督 毒 僕
-ʊk: 曲 局 獄 玉 欲 慾 燭 屬 囑 觸 贖 束 蜀 辱 褥 綠 錄 足 促 俗 續
-ɔk: 覺 角 確 殼 嶽 學 握 卓 琢 濯 濁 捉 朔 駁 剝 樸 雹

T
-at: 吉 一 乙 逸 窒 姪 質 實 失 室 日 栗 慄 七 漆 疾 悉 膝 畢 必 筆 匹 弼 蜜 密 訖
-œt: 橘 出 術 述 律 戌 恤
-at: 瑟
-at: 屈 掘 鬱 弗 彿 拂 佛 勿 物
-at: 乞 迄
-at: 骨 窟 忽 笏 突 卒 猝 脖 餑 沒
-it: 訐 歇 謁
-yt: 闕 月 越 曰 鉞 發 髮 伐 筏 罰 襪
-ɔt: 葛 割 渴 曷 蝎 褐 辣 撻 獺 達
-ut: 闊 豁 活 捋 掇 脫 奪 撮 砵 撥 潑 鈸 末 沫 抹
-aat: 瞎 轄
-aat: 刮
-aat: 札 扎 紮 察 殺
-aat: 滑 猾 刷 八 拔
-it: 結 潔 臬 噎 鐵 迭 跌 節 切 沏 竊 截 瞥 蔑
-yt: 決 訣 缺 血 穴
-it: 傑 孽 徹 撤 澈 折 掣 舌 設 熱 列 烈 裂 褻 別 滅
-yt: 悅 閱 拙 說 劣 絕 雪

K
-œt: 腳 卻 瘧 虐 約 藥 鑰 酌 勺 綽 若 弱 略 掠 爵 雀 鵲 嚼 削 縛
-ɔk: 各 閣 胳 壑 鶴 惡 諾 絡 樂 烙 落 駱 酪 託 鐸 作 錯 昨 鑿 索 博 薄 泊 漠 莫 膜 幕 寞
-ɔk: 槨 郭 擴
-aak: 格 客 額 赫 澤 擇 宅 窄 百 柏 伯 迫 拍 珀 魄 白 逆
-aak: 革 隔 核 覈 軛 摘 責 策 柵
-ɔk: 獲 麥 脈
-ɛk/ɪk: 益 縊 疫 役 亦 譯 驛 奕 擲 隻 炙 尺 斥 赤 適 螫 釋 石 積 跡 脊 籍 惜 昔 席 夕 碧 僻 擗 闢
-ɛk: 擊 激 溺 歷 滴 的 嫡 剔 易 敵 狄 笛 績 戚 寂 錫 壁 璧 霹 劈 覓
-ik: 棘 極 抑 億 憶 弋 翼 敕 飭 直 側 測 惻 色 穡 嗇 織 職 食 識 式 拭 飾 匿 力 即 媳 息 逼
-wik: 域
-ak: 刻 剋 克 黑 勒 肋 得 德 忒 特 則 賊 塞 北 默 墨
-aak: 國 或 惑

P
-ap: 急 汲 給 級 泣 濇 執 汁 溼 十 什 拾 入 立 粒 葺 集aap 習 襲
-ap: 吸 邑 泣 揖 翕 歙
-aap: 蛤 盒 納 拉 答 搭 踏 雜
-aap: 臘 蠟 擸 塔 塌 榻 磕
-ip: 葉 摺 涉 獵 接 妾 捷
-ip: 頰 協 俠 挾 捻 帖 貼 疊 牒 蝶
-aap: 夾 袷 掐 恰 狹 插 霎 劄
-aap: 甲 狎 匣 鴨 閘 押 壓
-ip: 劫 怯 業 脅
-p: 法aat 乏at

1 person has voted this message useful



glossika
Super Polyglot
Pro Member
China
english.glossika.com
Joined 4845 days ago

45 posts - 72 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin, English*, German, Italian, Russian, Taiwanese, Shanghainese, Tok Pisin, Malay, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Romanian, Croatian, Serbian, Icelandic, Georgian, Indonesian
Studies: Czech, Vietnamese, Mongolian, Latvian, Persian, Arabic (Written)
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 29 of 37
18 February 2007 at 6:41am | IP Logged 
It looks like the IPA is not appearing correctly on my computer.

Ok, so let me make some changes to the Cantonese:

Cantonese List of Rusheng Characters by Category (Guangzhou Yue):

K
-uk: 谷 轂 穀 哭 斛 屋 祿 鹿 轆 碌 禿 獨 瀆 犢 牘 讀 讟 族 速 卜 撲 木 沐
-uk: 菊 畜 竹 築 逐 縮 祝 粥 叔 淑 熟 肉 陸 六 戮 肅 夙 宿 福 幅 蝠 輻 複 腹 覆 服 伏 復 目 穆 牧
-uk: 酷 篤 督 毒 僕
-uk: 曲 局 獄 玉 欲 慾 燭 屬 囑 觸 贖 束 蜀 辱 褥 綠 錄 足 促 俗 續
-ok: 覺 角 確 殼 嶽 學 握 卓 琢 濯 濁 捉 朔 駁 剝 樸 雹

T
-at: 吉 一 乙 逸 窒 姪 質 實 失 室 日 栗 慄 七 漆 疾 悉 膝 畢 必 筆 匹 弼 蜜 密 訖
-œt: 橘 出 術 述 律 戌 恤
-at: 瑟
-at: 屈 掘 鬱 弗 彿 拂 佛 勿 物
-at: 乞 迄
-at: 骨 窟 忽 笏 突 卒 猝 脖 餑 沒
-it: 訐 歇 謁
-yt: 闕 月 越 曰 鉞 發 髮 伐 筏 罰 襪
-ot: 葛 割 渴 曷 蝎 褐 辣 撻 獺 達
-ut: 闊 豁 活 捋 掇 脫 奪 撮 砵 撥 潑 鈸 末 沫 抹
-aat: 瞎 轄
-aat: 刮
-aat: 札 扎 紮 察 殺
-aat: 滑 猾 刷 八 拔
-it: 結 潔 臬 噎 鐵 迭 跌 節 切 沏 竊 截 瞥 蔑
-yt: 決 訣 缺 血 穴
-it: 傑 孽 徹 撤 澈 折 掣 舌 設 熱 列 烈 裂 褻 別 滅
-yt: 悅 閱 拙 說 劣 絕 雪

K
-œt: 腳 卻 瘧 虐 約 藥 鑰 酌 勺 綽 若 弱 略 掠 爵 雀 鵲 嚼 削 縛
-ok: 各 閣 胳 壑 鶴 惡 諾 絡 樂 烙 落 駱 酪 託 鐸 作 錯 昨 鑿 索 博 薄 泊 漠 莫 膜 幕 寞
-ok: 槨 郭 擴
-aak: 格 客 額 赫 澤 擇 宅 窄 百 柏 伯 迫 拍 珀 魄 白 逆
-aak: 革 隔 核 覈 軛 摘 責 策 柵
-ok: 獲 麥 脈
-ehk/ihk: 益 縊 疫 役 亦 譯 驛 奕 擲 隻 炙 尺 斥 赤 適 螫 釋 石 積 跡 脊 籍 惜 昔 席 夕 碧 僻 擗 闢
-ehk: 擊 激 溺 歷 滴 的 嫡 剔 易 敵 狄 笛 績 戚 寂 錫 壁 璧 霹 劈 覓
-ik: 棘 極 抑 億 憶 弋 翼 敕 飭 直 側 測 惻 色 穡 嗇 織 職 食 識 式 拭 飾 匿 力 即 媳 息 逼
-wik: 域
-ak: 刻 剋 克 黑 勒 肋 得 德 忒 特 則 賊 塞 北 默 墨
-aak: 國 或 惑

P
-ap: 急 汲 給 級 泣 濇 執 汁 溼 十 什 拾 入 立 粒 葺 集aap 習 襲
-ap: 吸 邑 泣 揖 翕 歙
-aap: 蛤 盒 納 拉 答 搭 踏 雜
-aap: 臘 蠟 擸 塔 塌 榻 磕
-ip: 葉 摺 涉 獵 接 妾 捷
-ip: 頰 協 俠 挾 捻 帖 貼 疊 牒 蝶
-aap: 夾 袷 掐 恰 狹 插 霎 劄
-aap: 甲 狎 匣 鴨 閘 押 壓
-ip: 劫 怯 業 脅
-p: 法aat 乏at

1 person has voted this message useful



Andy_Liu
Triglot
Senior Member
Hong Kong
leibby.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5095 days ago

255 posts - 257 votes 
Speaks: Mandarin, Cantonese*, EnglishC2
Studies: French

 
 Message 30 of 37
18 February 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged 
(Transliteration schemes)
To be frank, interested users can refer to:

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%95%99%E8%82%B2%E5%AD%B8%E9% 99%A2%E6%8B%BC%E9%9F%B3%E6%96%B9%E6%A1%88

Only the English version doesn't have Chinese examples. This scheme is the only official in Hong Kong. As for the mainland scheme, refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong_Romanization#Cantones e

You may check every pinyin out by finding a reliable dictionary. Some are even online.

Rusheng is a common place in the language, but to learn the characters, just start with basic ones as you do for others. The entering-tone is just a "consonant coda" without an aspirated stop as in English "cat", "park" and "cap".

Edited by Andy_Liu on 18 February 2007 at 10:34am

1 person has voted this message useful



alfajuj
Diglot
Senior Member
Taiwan
Joined 4520 days ago

121 posts - 126 votes 
Speaks: English*, Mandarin
Studies: Taiwanese, French

 
 Message 31 of 37
03 April 2008 at 6:43am | IP Logged 
I'm a little surprised that no one has brought this up, but all these years we have been translating the Mandarin word (fang yan) as dialect, but that is absolutely not what it means. (Fang yan) means "local language" not "dialect" There is no word I've ever heard used in Mandarin which means exactly "dialect" in the sense that it means in English. All these different Chinese languages are not dialects of each other. They are separate languages. Granted, they are related historically and culturally, but they are undoubtedly separate languages. They are mutually unintelligible. A dialect is the same language but with differences in accent, grammar (sometimes) and vocabulary. It must be mutually intelligible to be a dialect of the same language. German and English are undoubtedly different languages, but they share 60% lexical similarity. Taiwanese and Mandarin only share 15% lexical similarity!
To say that the writing is shared means little, because it is a symbolic system.


1 person has voted this message useful



paparaciii
Diglot
Senior Member
Latvia
Joined 4645 days ago

204 posts - 223 votes 
Speaks: Latvian*, Russian
Studies: English

 
 Message 32 of 37
03 April 2008 at 12:46pm | IP Logged 
So English becomes the biggest language by amount of native speakers? ;))


1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 37 messages over 5 pages: << Prev 1 2 35  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3125 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2020 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.