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Serpent’s log

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mankso
Pentaglot
Newbie
Canada
esperanto.memlink.ca
Joined 5138 days ago

10 posts - 10 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto, Spanish, French
Studies: Irish

 
 Message 57 of 119
06 December 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
A stupid question about Latin: is cc read as kts (e.g. in occīdĕre)? We're learning classical Latin at the university...


Not when I went to school it wasn't!
occidere - ok-kidere
accedo - ak-kedo
accipio - ak-kipio
Bacchus - bak-kus
vacca - vak-ka

How does your place pronounce 'lectio' & 'oratio'? We said 'lektio' & 'oratio'; some more church-oriented places say 'lektsio' & 'oratsio'. Does that help? Pronunciation traditions for Latin still vary very much from country to country. Try listening to Finnish radio's Latin program to see what I mean: http://www.yleradio1.fi/nuntii/
To my ear their Finnish accent is very strong and quite immediately evident!!
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 58 of 119
06 December 2007 at 2:10pm | IP Logged 
we say lektsio & oratsio, although our university isn't church-oriented, in fact our Latin professor has very strong atheistic views and that's why she doesn't teach at the teology department.
btw, didn't you read ch as h (or maybe closer to the German ch)?
thanks for the link :) to me the accent doesn't sound too strong, maybe that's because of my exposure to Finnish :) but it's certainly different from the Latin pronunciation in Russia.
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mankso
Pentaglot
Newbie
Canada
esperanto.memlink.ca
Joined 5138 days ago

10 posts - 10 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto, Spanish, French
Studies: Irish

 
 Message 59 of 119
06 December 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged 
Re: Bacchus - bak-khus - i suppose you are technically correct, but I think that if any one had actually said that in class it would have raised eyebrows, and been regarded as somewhat prissy, precious, or just too too much! Or Hellen-esque even!

A related item:
Although I have gone to (Anglican) churches for years, and heard choirs singing the Kyrie eleison at mass in Greek or English, I have yet to hear a choir (or anyone else for that matter) actually pronounce 'Kyrie' as "kürie', or 'Christe' as "kh-riste" - normally it's just 'kirie' and 'kriste'. I suppose in Russia that would be in OCSl anyway, so you are not likely to know, but - does one hear 'gospodi' or 'hospodi' or 'khospodi' [pomiluj]?

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 60 of 119
06 December 2007 at 4:38pm | IP Logged 
Actually, as far as I understand, 'Gospodi' is the same in OCSl. I pronounce it with a g, but I've never really payed attention - maybe choirs do pronounce it with a h.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 61 of 119
13 December 2007 at 5:24pm | IP Logged 
The tabelvortoj in Esperanto finally make sense to me, except ĉiom. Could anyone explain what it means?
Also, how should one ask about the amount of something? is "kiom da ..." correct?
I've recently started reading Vere aŭ Fantazie and I've had to look up quite few words in the dictionary :)
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mankso
Pentaglot
Newbie
Canada
esperanto.memlink.ca
Joined 5138 days ago

10 posts - 10 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Esperanto, Spanish, French
Studies: Irish

 
 Message 62 of 119
13 December 2007 at 8:03pm | IP Logged 
Re the tabelvortoj in Esperanto and 'ĉiom' (which is probably the least used of all - I suspect it was probably put in there just to fill in the hole in the table!). It seems to mean 'the total amount(s) of', or simply 'all', as in 'Jen la kuko - manĝu ĉiom, se via apetito permesos tion!'
'kiom da' is used with plural nouns or pronouns when it means 'how many': kiom da personoj estis ĉe la kunveno?, whereas 'kiom' is used when no noun is present: Estis 50 personoj ĉe la kunveno, sed kiom [da ili] estis veraj komencantoj?
- Jen la kuko - kiom [da ĝi] vi povas manĝi?
- Kioma horo estas nun?
- Je kioma horo forveturos la trajno?
- Kiom da lingvoj vi parolas? [note the nominative after preposition 'da'!]
- Kiom ofte li tion diris?

Hope that this helps! What by the way is 'Vere aŭ fantazie'? I'm not familiar with that.

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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 63 of 119
14 December 2007 at 4:02pm | IP Logged 
Thanks!

Vere aŭ fantazie is a series of short stories :)
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5444 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 64 of 119
13 January 2008 at 9:20pm | IP Logged 
I've copied my posts with my accomplishments of 2007 and plans for 2008:

----------
I wasn't always satisfied with the amount of time I spent studying, but nevertheless I've achieved all my goals for 2007. Frankly speaking though, if I had set specific goals for Belarusian I wouldn't have reached them. I've learnt quite little of it:(
Well, at least I've improved my Finnish considerably. I did get a monolingual dictionary in Finland and I've been using it a lot. I could've done more for my listening comprehension though.
I'm also very satisfied with my Latin. Our professor at university is extremely strict, and it's next to impossible to cheat. Besides, we have a great textbook that lists French, English, German and Russian words that come from every word in the vocabulary lists. Perfect for those who really wish to study the language.
I dropped the sentence method in Esperanto because I realized there's no need to use it with such easy languages. I've been learning the vocabulary a lot, adding Esperanto words to Mnemosyne along with Latin ones.
I haven't done much for my German, but..well, it's still alive.
Another frustrating thing is that I never found the time to shadow or at least read aloud the exercises for our English phonetics classes.
---

Plans:

English
Start shadowing the exercises that we have at our phonetics classes and perhaps some podcast. I'd like to have a native-like accent, no clue what for if I'm not going to be a spy...

Finnish
Continue moving along to advanced fluency. I've asked a friend who's going to Finland for Christmas holidays to buy Lord Of The Rings in Finnish for me. It will be the first time I'll be reading such a huge book in a foreign language:))))
Also going to check some advanced-level textbooks at the library.

Latin
Try to reach basic fluency. Not sure what it means for dead languages...

Esperanto
Also striving for basic fluency. Learning more suffices and some more vocabulary should help. I also need to start using it more often.

German
Classses at university starting from September. Nothing special before that.

Belarusian
Reach at least the intermediate level, read and listen to genuine stuff as much as possible.

Portuguese
Start learning it as soon as I feel my knowledge of other languages is good enough to start a new one. Hopefully getting to intermediate by the end of the year.


General: start practising "immersion days" for languages other than Finnish.


If I achieve these goals I'll have basic fluency in three languages and intermediate level in two more (+ German) by the end of the year. Nice :)
----------


On the 12th of January I passed the Latin credit at university. The professor was very satisfied with the way I replied and said that was how she wanted us all to reply at credits. I'm more satisfied with myself than she is with me since she doesn't know I had gone to bed at 9 AM that day and I hadn't been even studying Latin all night long, I had been studying philosophy because I was supposed to take a credit on it the same day (the credit was postponed). In fact I only spent one evening studying Latin during my Christmas holidays and I also revised some things during the credit, while others were already taking it.
So I now think it's perhaps not too ambitious a goal to try to get an excellent mark for the Latin exam in June. They say this prof almost always gives satisfactory or bad marks at exams, but occasionally also good ones and rarely excellent marks.
Another new goal is start going through the tips at http://www.getitwriteonline.com. I've just found this site and it's fantastic. I've counted that I'll have about 32 "usual" weeks this year, 8 weeks during which I'll have holidays and have internet acces and 10 more (+2 that have already passed) during which I'll either have exams/credits or be in Belarus or Finland (hopefully) without regular internet access. I'll try to go through one article each week during the semesters at uni and two-three articles a week when I'm free from studies and have internet access. I'll also do some revision, perhaps once a month. So if everything goes as planned I'll have gone through 48-50 articles by the end of the year, but since things never work the way you expect them to, my plan is to go through 45 articles.

Edited by Serpent on 22 January 2008 at 5:15pm



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