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6WC - Finnish (MGF) | ||
Tags: 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6476 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 9 of 38 17 April 2007 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, I probably should slow down a bit and not, say, spend two hours a day doing this without THAT much review, but... well, coming from just having spent the past two semesters learning Russian cases, which have all sorts of interesting forms, along with the genetive plural, Finnish cases are relatively simple. The lack of a gender really, really helps.
So for ellative and ablative, ellative would be like coming out from something, where as ablative would be like walking away from some place? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6675 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 38 17 April 2007 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
I don't suppose you are asking whether these are the partitive forms of vesi and uusi? Just in case, the partitive forms are "vettä" and "uutta" respectively. But if you mean what I think you mean, the idea there is to change those words as described, to a halfway-stop nonsense form "vete" and "uute", and then apply the normal rules to that nonsense form, as a trick to end up with the correct partitive. Was that how you meant it? If that was the idea I am not too sure it works, considering that there actually is a real noun "uute" (extract) which becomes "uutetta" in partitive, not "uutta". Edited by Hencke on 17 April 2007 at 6:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6476 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 11 of 38 17 April 2007 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hm... I meant that in words that end in -si, where the -i changes to an -e when inflected, then the -s seems to change to a -t.
So uute - extract wouldn't work since that's already any e. Also, that in the partitive, quite a few of the -i to -e words tended to drop the final -e before the addition of the ending. http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~pamakine/kieli/suomi/sijat/genetiiviva ren.html That website has what I'm talking about on it. Edited by MeshGearFox on 17 April 2007 at 7:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6476 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 12 of 38 18 April 2007 at 12:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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Day 4:
I might read over that massive webpage about stem changes I posted in the last post a bit more tonight, or pick up some vocab. I'm having trouble finding a decent online dictionary for finnish, though. Nothing with context, as per Lingvo.ru for russian. Anyway, what'd I do today? Read through the five kinds of verbs you have to deal with and how they conjugate. Some case review. I'm not really memorizing this stuff yet -- just learning how it works. Memorizing the forms can come later. Knowing when to expect them means I can pull stuff apart and figure it out. My pronunciation is wrong. I haven't had much luck with audio paired with text, yet. Will work on this. Main goal for Friday is to have the twelve most common cases' endings memorized. I'll set up some Mnemosyne cards in a bit. Something like three cards for each case -- name and ending, ending and primary function, primary function and name. This circular association thing is how I memorized poetry so I imagine it has applications for vocabulary. Wikipedia's Finnish Grammar section is quite robust. I'm glad about this. Oh, found some additional structures that remind me of Russian. Accusative either has the same ending as nominative or as genitive, for one thing, and the accusative/partitive distinction rather reminds me of some of the different connotations that the imperfective/perfective distinction in Russian has. This is really fun, though. It's like this massive, cyclopaean structure built of grammar and festooned with little bits of additional grammar. Edited by MeshGearFox on 18 April 2007 at 1:04am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6378 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 38 18 April 2007 at 9:07am | IP Logged | |||||
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6675 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 14 of 38 18 April 2007 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | |||||
OK, but by "nonsense form" I just meant that they are not real meaningful words on their own. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6476 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 15 of 38 18 April 2007 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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To quote that site I linked to earlier, which talked about forming the genetive stem:
"If a word ends in a relic consonant, the genitive stem is formed by adding another e to the nominative stem. A relic consonant is a letter, usually h or k, which has disappeared in the modern Finnish, but still affects the pronunciation. Nowadays, the last letter of these words is e." I'm not really sure what that means. Should I just add another e and then... well, reverse the consonant gradation on the nominative stem because you're re-opening the stem? Not in the mood to memorize this right now, but I guess it's good knowing where I can predict this stuff will occur. Day 5 (?) --- I took a nap earlier today, so I've not done much yet. Current goals are to make some flashcards for words, get the case endings down, and get the adjective endings down. I'll edit this later to report my findings! Also, I plan on learning the past tense in a few minutes, and possibly one of the moods. I'm also interested in vowel mutation with suffixes, mostly in regards to -i.This is one of my goals for tomorrow. Also tomorrow, learning some of the conjunctions and pronouns is a goal. The relative pronouns appear to be rather irregular (Joka -> jonka in genitive?) so for the time being I'll mostly just work on being able to recognize it in its forms. Adverb endings and stuff like that can wait. It sounds interesting, but I'm still on the basics. Adverbs will be... after verbs or something. So, goals for the end of the first week? Basically have case endings memorized, superlative and comparative forms down, and, say, 50 words. I can ramp up the number of words per week each week. Edited by MeshGearFox on 19 April 2007 at 4:47am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MeshGearFox Senior Member United States Joined 6476 days ago 316 posts - 344 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian | Message 16 of 38 19 April 2007 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Day 6
--- I couldn't find any other lessons, so I've decided to just move on to the stuff on: http://www.edu.fi/oppimateriaalit/ymmarrasuomea/ Mostly I've just been translating. I did the first three paragraphs of the Alkukappale. In addition, I've been making some Mnemosyne cards for the verbs since I'm reasonably comfortable with conjugations. I've noticed a few noun forms I don't understand, namely the third person singular posessive suffix in various declined instances. Also, I'm not quite sure I understand the illative very well. Anyway, this is my translation if anyone's interested. It's rather, ah, literal in places" --- It is February's last day. There's a hurry in the bank, as always in the month's end. Pirkko's cash register has a lot of clients in wait (into a turn?/their turns?). The first in the queue is as a young lady, who wants to pay the rent, the electricity bill, and the phone bill. She leaves her bills to Pirkko, who delivers them into the budget account and gives to the customers the receipts. Simultaneously woman draws 1000 marks in (composed of) cash. Pirkko's next customer is an old man, who withdraws his pension. Then it's Mirko's turn. Mirko doesn't remember, how much money on his account. Therefore he asks of Pirkko his balance. When Pirkko has him his balance, Mirko wants to send to his family (into?) Croatia 1000 marks. Pirkko gives to Mirko a form (Is this ACC or GEN?), which Mirko fills. Mirko asks of Pirrko, when moneys are at the destination. Pirkko says, that it lasts about a week. Also in the ATM's front is a queue, because the lady, who is trying to take money out of the ATM, does not remember her PIN number. She goes into the bank, and calms down the situation with the ATM. --- Anyway, future goals? Mostly, learn some more words and pick up some idiomatic expression (I have a hurry v. I'm in a hurry). At this point fretting about how I need to find the proper stem to decline is sort of pointless given that I really don't have much vocabulary. I have a basic idea as to some of the more common stem changes, and I can mostly recognize the endings, so that's good enough for me at this point. I should probably learn the numbers this weekend -- I guess that I'll make a mental note that this is a must. Edited by MeshGearFox on 20 April 2007 at 3:26am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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