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Native Esperanto as a Test Case (...)

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jeff_lindqvist
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 Message 1 of 43
26 June 2007 at 4:59am | IP Logged 
I haven't seen this report before:Native Esperanto as a Test Case for Natural Language (PDF)
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awake
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 Message 2 of 43
26 June 2007 at 9:11am | IP Logged 
That's very interesting, thanks for the link! :)
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Captain Haddock
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 Message 3 of 43
28 June 2007 at 8:36am | IP Logged 
Now people might not get so annoyed at me when I say spoken Esperanto is a creolized language. :)
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allesgeht08
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 Message 4 of 43
28 June 2007 at 4:14pm | IP Logged 
very interesting; but I thought the fundamental definition of a natural language that it arose gradually and was not consciously created?

on a different note, what do y'all think of the idea, proposed on p. 53, of an all-Esperanto society? (i.e. a town or something--not the whole world.) Would it be possible, or even desirable?
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Mga
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 Message 5 of 43
01 July 2007 at 6:30pm | IP Logged 
I would feel sorry for the inhabitants of such a society.
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Iversen
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 Message 6 of 43
02 July 2007 at 6:33am | IP Logged 
I wouldn't. There are other small language communities who are more isolated and more exposed, - for instance the town Maalula in Syria where Aramaic is still spoken right in the middle of an Arab-speaking region with a very different religious background. Or what about all the villages in New Guinea who each have their own language, which means that any communication with the outside world has to be through the local pidgin?

In the hypothetical case that somebody created an Esperantoville somewhere the first generation would probably be L2, L3... -speakers. But as mentioned in the article about native Esperanto the country of Israel was created by people who had other native languages, and who had to learn something that was essentially an artificial variant of an antique language (Ivrit). So the exercise has been done before on a fairly large scale. However most language shifts of this kind have a violent background, and I see no upheavals in the current world that would force anybody to switch to Esperanto. Other languages maybe, but not Esperanto.   

Esperanto is essentially an artificially created creole language, i.e. a language that is based on elements from several (related) languages and which from the beginning ahs no native speakers. But when such a lingua franca has been in use for some time it can take on a life of its own, it can acquire a literature, native speakers and so forth. When this has happened, and to a large extent it has happened to Esperanto (contrary to other artificial languages), then it doesn't really matter how it originated.

And then - if Esperanto really did become a native language for a lot of people then one thing would certainly happen: it would become as difficult as other languages. People would start breaking the rules (even the 16 sacred commandments!), they would make exceptions, regional variations, new words, new rules, exceptions from the new rules and so forth. Other people would start describing these developments using the whole arsenal of linguistic tools, condemning some developments, recommanding others, and soon Esperanto would have all the complications that it was supposed to eliminate.


Edited by Iversen on 07 September 2011 at 1:15am

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Cage
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 Message 7 of 43
09 July 2007 at 12:23am | IP Logged 
How would Esperanto compare with Klingon in say number of native speakers, total number of speakers, literature, culture, etc? Wonder how many bilingual Esperanto/Klingon speakers there are? By the way, very interesting post iversen!

Edited by Cage on 09 July 2007 at 12:26am

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LilleOSC
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 Message 8 of 43
09 July 2007 at 10:03am | IP Logged 
Cage wrote:
How would Esperanto compare with Klingon in say number of native speakers, total number of speakers, literature, culture, etc? Wonder how many bilingual Esperanto/Klingon speakers there are? By the way, very interesting post iversen!

I think Esperanto is richer in all those catergories.Isn't Klingon a language that very few people know?


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