Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Total Immersion is a Crock!

  Tags: Immersion
 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies Post Reply
40 messages over 5 pages: 1 24 5  Next >>
Volte
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 4678 days ago

4474 posts - 6724 votes 
Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian
Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese

 
 Message 17 of 40
01 July 2007 at 8:48am | IP Logged 
TerryW wrote:

(( from listening to Japanese -radio- (aka, with no visual clues) I managed to learn more Japanese than you postulate for three months in Spanish, in the course of a few hours. ))

Be serious! If you're super-human, then it doesn't count!


Hah. I'm not super-human, and I am being serious. It wasn't significantly more than you postulated, but it was slightly more. Listening while paying attention is surprisingly effective. I think there's some benefit in doing it right at the start, as word boundaries in most languages I've heard become very clear within a few hours of listening, though what things actually mean doesn't.

Caveat: I find this approach next to useless for actually learning a significant amount, from a beginner's level, without other materials. TV/movies are much easier to understand, but it's also easy to get to a point where you comprehend the basics of what's going on and mainly ignore the language beyond that, relying on the visual cues to fill things in, or so I've found, in my limited use of them.

2 persons have voted this message useful



johntothea
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4867 days ago

193 posts - 192 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Russian, Norwegian, Polish, French

 
 Message 18 of 40
01 July 2007 at 12:31pm | IP Logged 
Silvestris wrote:
reineke wrote:
What makes you think that the two are mutually exclusive, baby? Silvestris, I believe the throwing in the river part is called "submersion" or "sink or swim" :)


Or baptism by fire. The point being, they both hurt like a- :)

Oh and good point Terry! I hope no one scared you with this dogpile that formed. Welcome to the forums!

(Am I the only one who wants to see someone come in an say "Monolingualism rules!" just for the reactions?)


I've always thought about that. haha.

Or someone asking the question 'I grew up bi-lingual in english and [insert language name here]. It's a serious problem for me, how do I forget [insert language name here]?'
1 person has voted this message useful



reineke
Senior Member
United States
https://learnalangua
Joined 4686 days ago

851 posts - 1008 votes 
Studies: German

 
 Message 19 of 40
01 July 2007 at 1:22pm | IP Logged 
Monolingualism rules! One language ruling over millions of miles, how reassuring, how wonderful! In a way we're all studying languages and annexing new territories to our own language empires because multilingualism sucks and because we want more of that wonderful American monolingual feeling. Whenever a language dies, an angel gets its wings.

Edited by reineke on 01 July 2007 at 1:28pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Silvestris
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4803 days ago

131 posts - 136 votes 
Speaks: English*, Polish*, German

 
 Message 20 of 40
01 July 2007 at 1:52pm | IP Logged 
johntothea wrote:
Or someone asking the question 'I grew up bi-lingual in english and [insert language name here]. It's a serious problem for me, how do I forget [insert language name here]?'


I can almost hear the screaming and gnashing of the teeth, haha!

reineke wrote:
Monolingualism rules! One language ruling over millions of miles, how reassuring, how wonderful! In a way we're all studying languages and annexing new territories to our own language empires.


Haha! That sounds a little like Mongolianism to me.

You guys are awesome. I know exactly why I love this forum so much now.
1 person has voted this message useful



tmesis
Senior Member
Mayotte
Joined 4887 days ago

154 posts - 146 votes 
Speaks: English*

 
 Message 21 of 40
01 July 2007 at 2:24pm | IP Logged 
-

Edited by tmesis on 17 February 2008 at 3:34pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Jerrod
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4742 days ago

168 posts - 176 votes 
Studies: Russian, Spanish

 
 Message 22 of 40
02 July 2007 at 1:40am | IP Logged 
I like the immersion style technique, even from the beginning. In my Russian classes in the USA we used the immersion technique except when it came to complicated grammar topics. Our book was in English and that was reserved solely for home study. Once you do get to the intermediate stage though, you should strive for nothing but immersion. Even with complicated topics.
I do think it is ridiculous that you can learn a language just from hearing it without the material being graded. I.e. just turning on Oprah in French and understanding.
Even with graded material in the beginning why watch two videos with the same 15 words and try to guess their meanings and hope you get them right? I will simply look up the 15 words and watch the videos over and over till it is second nature. Surely this reduces the time needed and you advance faster; even if you do some translation in your head (that will fade with time).

2 persons have voted this message useful



skeeterses
Senior Member
United States
angelfire.com/games5Registered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4857 days ago

302 posts - 356 votes 
1 sounds
Speaks: English*
Studies: Korean, Spanish

 
 Message 23 of 40
02 July 2007 at 2:29am | IP Logged 
"I should have softened that post up a bit by mentioning that I've been reading the incredible wealth of info here for a couple months and really do appreciate it. Wow, I come back here a few hours after posting, and there are 138 views and 8 replies. I've dabbled with a bunch of languages off and on (mostly off), using an even bigger bunch of different resources. I'll detail that in a later reply. "

Terry, dabbling with a bunch of languages is the reason why you're not really learning anything new. Now, I'm not saying that you should watch Spanish TV for 10 hours a day. But if you're serious about learning a new language, then the people on this bulletin board can help you find some good material for learning a new language.
1 person has voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 4942 days ago

9078 posts - 16470 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 24 of 40
02 July 2007 at 4:56am | IP Logged 
It all boils down to the notion of comprehensible input. For a total 100% novice nothing is comprehensible, so either you 'cheat' by offering a few words with translations in the beginning or you indicate the meaning by non-linguistic cues. In my opinion there is nothing gained by avoiding the translations.

After that there comes a stage where you can learn new words or expressions if they come in a context where their meaning is clear. For a 95% novice this means that you only can use special prepared texts, graded very carefully, or contexts where there are sufficiently clear non-linguistic clues ("this is a..." pointing to an object). Even at this stage I find that that it is unnecessary masochism to avoid two-way dictionaries and other external sources of information. Besides I don't trust guessing, especially not the guesses of a novice - Kikenyoy's example with the soccer player pinpoints the problem. Besides I personally abhor the situation where I depend on a teacher or textbook for providing meaningful input, and every trick that can bring me out of that situation as fast as possible is permissible.

For a person who already is fairly advanced it is less harmful to rely on monolinguistical settings because you already have some idea about which guesses are credible, and you are capable of processing much larger quantities of input. Nonetheless I still trust a good dictionary or grammar more than my own judgment even at this stage.

So basically I don't see the advantages of a 100% monolingual setting for vocabulary or grammar learning. Where it does have a role to play is in training fluency (=fluent language production). It is much easier to think in a foreign language and maybe even utter a few sentences here and there when you are immersed in a monolingual setting, for instance when you visit another country. Besides it is a perfect setting for training how to pronounce the language, especially if everybody around you are native speakers.


Edited by Iversen on 02 July 2007 at 4:57am



5 persons have voted this message useful



This discussion contains 40 messages over 5 pages: << Prev 1 24 5  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 0.3589 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2020 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.