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Having Trouble with Pimsleur French I | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 1712 days ago 2299 posts - 173 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 25 of 36 30 October 2007 at 4:50am | IP Logged | ||
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This has been said before. I think the main reason to exclude a script is to make the student to focus on the sounds and not on what's written. Similar to play music by ear and not by reading the staff notation.
If you "get it" the first time it's OK to go on, and even then it's OK to listen once more for deeper knowledge. I don't think I have ever spent several hours on one lesson. Perhaps two or three sessions if was particularly difficult, and then next lesson (the day after) - assuming that necessary stuff will appear in later lessons. I must confess that I haven't paid any particular attention to Pimsleur French (I've only listened to a lesson or two), but for the other languages I can't say that they speak unnaturally fast, rather quite slowly. | |||
| Monsieur Newbie United States Joined 1048 days ago 9 posts Speaks: English* | Message 26 of 36 30 October 2007 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would have to say that in Pimsleur French, the speakers recorded are speaking like they are on cocaine, like they must rapidly fire their speech. Maybe French people just speak unnaturally fast... Here's a hilarious example of Arab/Persian differences that I think can relate.
Edited by Monsieur on 30 October 2007 at 9:44pm | |||
| coyote Diglot Newbie United States Joined 1045 days ago 31 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 27 of 36 02 November 2007 at 11:18am | IP Logged | ||
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[/QUOTE] I figure it is best to get the lessons down well before moving on, even if it takes longer to complete the course. I am not in a race, or planning a trip to France in a certain time frame. I realize learning a language is an ongoing process. You don't simply learn it in a few months and then stop, so it isn't going to make any difference if I take longer to go through things. It is more important to get things right. [/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right there. Everybody hits sticking points in language study, and it doesn't necessarily mean the method is wrong. Sometimes it's better just to keep pushing until you break through. Myself, I have found Pimsleur to be a very good course, though I realize that all courses are not made for everyone. | |||
| coyote Diglot Newbie United States Joined 1045 days ago 31 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 28 of 36 02 November 2007 at 11:35am | IP Logged | ||
I have found that breaking into a language with Pimsleur and then following up with the FSI course is a good combination. Of course, you also need to supplement your study with other resources, especially authentic materials. | |||
| coyote Diglot Newbie United States Joined 1045 days ago 31 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 29 of 36 02 November 2007 at 11:47am | IP Logged | ||
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One other point. There has been discussion on this topic concerning whether you should pause the tape in Pimsleur. I don't have my instructions in front of me, so I don't remember if it is suggested that you don't. My feeling is that it's better to pause the tape than have your answer interrupted by the speaker's. Sometimes, especially if my mind was wandering, I would stop the tape so I could respond correctly. A correct answer is a better reenforcer than a wrong one. Besides, I don't believe that speed at this stage is essential. Speed comes with practice.
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. Edited by coyote on 02 November 2007 at 11:49am | |||
 Farley Triglot Pro Member United States Joined 1895 days ago 680 posts - 11 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, GermanB1, French Studies: Spanish Personal Language Map | Message 30 of 36 02 November 2007 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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"Once I got the basics down I tried Pimsleur a second time and did much better. I could knock out two courses a day with ease. The only problem was that I had these vivid visual images and memories chatting about the kids, working for IBM, asking for something to drink or someone to fill up the car with gas, and next to no memory of what I was supposed to say in French. How's that for memory? I dropped Pimsleur for the second time."
I just gave Pimsleur French a try for the third time and I'm taking back my words. This topic, and my rant, got me thinking. If I could still remember the images from the Pimsleur tapes from 2 years ago what if I just used the lessons as an exercise in visualization and pronunciation? I did a quick experiment. I took an old lesson and tried it the "correct way" and got the usually outcome: my pronunciation got worse. Then I tried it the "incorrect way", just listen and repeat. I focused on visualizing every cue and pronouncing every response. I also Audacity to shorten the gaps, the resulting mp3 was only 15 minutes long. I used the pause button to control the gaps. That worked! After 15 minutes like this I got the "tetris effect". Pimsleur just might be getting some more of my money. I think the trick was using Pimsleur with about every other French course that I have used. Pimsleur might just be the way to help keep frequent vocabulary on the tip of my tongue. I remember things the best by reading out loud, provided I know the pronunciation. I experimented and tried using drill based audio courses as the teacher but found they were only useful when I relied on them for pronunciation only. I just had not tried this on Pimsleur due to no script. @fsc, You might just want to try using Pimsleur in listen and repeat mode and start mixing in some of the French in Action videos and a couple of grammar/phrase books. There is nothing that says you have to master Pimsleur before moving on to something else. John Edited by Farley on 04 November 2007 at 11:14am | |||
| fsc Groupie United States Joined 1132 days ago 97 posts - 2 votes Studies: French | Message 31 of 36 06 November 2007 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | ||
The problem is that the course, at times, does a sloppy job of making the sounds distinct. Like I mentioned before, why do they break a two syllable word down into each syllable, but then don't do the same with 3, 4 or 5 syllable words? They repeat the word 4 times but without breaking it down, often times I am not sure of the sounds. Some words sound similar but the ending is different yet it is hard to hear. This makes about as much sense as printing a book in large sized text for people who have trouble seeing, but printing the text blurry. They should have provided a script with instructions to use it only if you are having trouble understanding the sounds. I get so frustrated trying to do it right only to wonder if I am pronouncing the words correctly. | |||
| fsc Groupie United States Joined 1132 days ago 97 posts - 2 votes Studies: French | Message 32 of 36 06 November 2007 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | ||
Actually the instructions for Pimsleur say not to use anything else or to refer to dictionary but I agree with what you are saying and think I am going to start trying some other stuff. I have already referred to a dictionary numerous times when I wasn't clear on something in Pimsleur and it was a big help. Perhaps Pimsleur is afraid if you try something else, it will work better for you and you will ditch their stuff. |
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