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Pronunciation of a sentence in Japanese.

 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages Post Reply
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gidler
Senior Member
Finland
Joined 5842 days ago

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1 sounds
Speaks: Finnish*

 
 Message 9 of 28
29 November 2007 at 6:07am | IP Logged 
Note that "biru" means a building. Beer is "biiru".
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furyou_gaijin
Senior Member
Japan
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540 posts - 631 votes 
Speaks: Latin*

 
 Message 10 of 28
29 November 2007 at 9:26am | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:
furyou_gaijin wrote:
And what about 'biru GA nomimasu ka'? :-)))


Your Japanese is much better than mine, but as far as I can tell, that's something that's absolutely never said. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. Beer, whether a subject or a 'topic', just doesn't drink, at least in my universe.



Yes, you're wrong. The details here:

http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-09-03/repeat-after-me-there-is- no-such-thing-as-the-subject/
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atamagaii
Senior Member
Anguilla
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181 posts - 195 votes 
Speaks: Apache*

 
 Message 12 of 28
29 November 2007 at 4:03pm | IP Logged 
WARNING!
I'm not an expert. (Be an expert but never consider yourslef a polyglot.)
I've watched 670 Japanese movies so far, oh, no 669 ("hadaka no sima" does not count, watch it and you'll see why.)
This is what I figured out (I'm atamagaii, after all).

Let's compare the sentences:
地獄は俺だ。 これが地獄だ。
A painter who has wanted to paint HELL, realizes:
地獄は俺だ。     じごく は おれ だ。     (lit. Hell as for I is/am.) I am (the) hell.
www.stultorum.pochta.ru\nihongo\Jigoku wa ore da.wav

At last, he sees the hell he has been looking for (his own daughter is burning alive):
これが地獄だ。     これ が じごく だ。     THIS (not something else) hell is.
www.stultorum.pochta.ru\nihongo\Kore ga jigoku da.wav

It is a matter of focus, really.

Sometimes the structure is similar to Indoeuropean languages, but it is misleading:
私はアルファであり、オメガである。.wav ; www.stultorum.pochta.ru\aaaa\arufa.mpg &nb sp; &nbs p; わたし は あるふぁ で あり、 おめが で ある。     I as for Alfa is/am (and), Omega is/am. I'm Alfa and Omega.Ja to Alfa jest (i), Omega jest(em).Ego sum alfa et omega.

In a restaurant:
私は天ぷらです。     わた し は てんぷら です。     Lit. I as for tempura is. (As for me) I want to order tempura. (Certainly not: I'm tempura. Oh well, it might be tempura speaking, or someone called Tempura, then it could mean: I'm (my name is) Tempura. Eat me! (Imagine a girl called Tempura).dosł. Ja to/co do mnie tempura jest (tym, co wybieram do jedzenia).

In a restaurant, it's time to pay the bill:
お勘定はどうしましょうか。 私が払います。 いいえ、私が払います。    &nb sp;おかんじょう は どう しましょう か。わたし が はらいます。いいえ、わたし が はらいます。     As for the bill, how shall we do?I will pay. JA zapłacę. No, I will pay. Nie, JA zapłacę.


Imagine you're a customer in a shop:
これはいいです。 As for this good is (without it) No, thank you, I don't want it. (co się tyczy tego kore, dobrze jest tak, jak jest bez niego)
これがいいです。 THIS (not something else) good is. This is what I want (I'll take it) (TO kore jest dobre, więc biorę)




The Japanese describe the world somewhat differently.
In Indoeuropean languages (Polish, Russian, Spanish, French, Gliglinski, English etc) the basic structure is:
WHO does/will do WHAT to WHOM.
In Japanese the focus is on
WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE STATE, to whom this WHAT or STATE refers is understood from the context, or marked by は ha/wa.
AND THIS IS THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between the languages.
Once you've realized that, everything else becomes surprisingly easy.


A man wakes up in a totally unfamiliar place:
ここはどこだ?      こ こ は どこ だ?     Where am I? Gdzie jestem? lit. This-place as for what-place is? Where is this (place)?To (miejsce tutaj) to gdzie jest?
www.stultorum.pochta.ru\nihongo\koko wa doko da.wav

I penned a most unorthodox indroduction to the Japanese language and culture – those familiar with Kanamara Maturi will know what to expect. Look for it in the depth of the boundless Internet, (but it is rather bulky: about forty giga bytes), ALL FREE OF CHARGE.

なりたいな、あたしも、殺し屋。 &nb sp; なりたい な、 あたし も、 ころしや。 (I')d like to become, me too, a killer. (I'm a cleaner, I kill stupidity.)
www.stultorum.pochta.ru\nihongo\naritai na atasi mo korosiya.wav


How to learn hiragana in ONE hour:
www.stultorum.pochta.ru\aaaa\kana.rar
(use Word 2000).

I promised to behave myself and not to post anything, forgive me, when I saw this thread, I couldn't resist the temptation.

But this is really my LAST post.

siomotteikiru.

Post scriptum:
I do not most certainly know the difference between 頭がいい and 頭が悪い。 For me, they are the same thing.


Edited by atamagaii on 16 December 2007 at 7:17am

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furyou_gaijin
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 5605 days ago

540 posts - 631 votes 
Speaks: Latin*

 
 Message 14 of 28
30 November 2007 at 7:48am | IP Logged 
leserables wrote:
furyou_gaijin wrote:
[QUOTE=Volte] [QUOTE=furyou_gaijin] And what about 'biru GA
nomimasu ka'? :-)))

Your Japanese is much better than mine, but as far as I can tell, that's something that's absolutely never said. If
I'm wrong, please enlighten me. Beer, whether a subject or a 'topic', just doesn't drink, at least in my universe.[/
QUOTE]
Yes, you're wrong. The details here:

http://nihongo.3yen.com/2007-09-03/repeat-after-me-there-is- no-such-thing-as-the-subject/
[/
QUOTE]

Biru GA nomimasu ka is wrong. Because, as Volte says, beer doesn't drink.
It has to be either:
What about beer, do you drink that? Biiru wa nomimasu ka.
Or, if you want to use ga, you have to change the verb-form, like in the above linked to explanation by Tae
Kim.
[Anata wa] biiru GA nomitai [no desu] ka
Which could be tranferred into English, using the beer as subject: What about you, would beer be
agreeable (the -tai form) to you?
We could even add a ni: Anata ni wa biiru ga nomitai no desu ka.
Both the adjective hoshii and the -tai verb forms turn the object of our desire (in English) into the subject that
excites said desire (in Japanese).
That at least is the way I have always interpreted the reason for this ga instead of the expected (by us)
object marker wo.


'Bi(i)ru ga nomimasu ka' sounds awkward. (I should have forseen people would take this literally. :-) ) But it has
nothing to do with beer being able to drink itself or subject/object intricacies or the use of '-tai' forms, etc. 'Ga'
places a lot of emphasis on the preceeding noun, of a kind that sounds awkward with the '-masu' form. But
something like 'biiru ga hoshii?' and 'biiru ga nomu?' is much more natural.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with '... wo ...-tai' although books don't teach this.
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furyou_gaijin
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 5605 days ago

540 posts - 631 votes 
Speaks: Latin*

 
 Message 16 of 28
30 November 2007 at 11:41am | IP Logged 
leserables wrote:
       Biiru wo hoshii


Where did I suggest that one?! And what is 'generally accepted' usage, anyway? Accepted by whom? By writers of
textbooks? 「を飲みたい」 returns 455,000 hits in Google.

Anyway, there is no point debating this further.


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