"Perfect Pronunciation" (General discussion) Language Learning Forum

"Perfect Pronunciation"
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Julie
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Message 33 of 131

02 December 2007 at 3:22pm | IP Logged

Zhuangzi wrote:

at the United Nations and many other conferences the interpreter works solely into his native language. While the translator/interpreter working from a native language into the foreign language has the advantage of fully understanding a given text, a translation into a non-native language almost inevitably sounds awkward. As a result of the stress of simultaneous interpretation, the interpreter into a non-native language is likely to make serious errors in grammar, vocabulary, syntax and style.

In Poland the standard is that you learn to work from a native language into the foreign language and the other way around. I agree that the interpreter into a non-native language is much more likely to make serious errors.

I tried some interpreting (not as a job and never simultaneously!) and my experience was that when I was translating into Polish it was happening automatically, I was just saying aloud what I heard and it sounded correct. When I was doing it into the foreign language I was making pretty many mistakes that I would never make in a regular conversation. I just had to go ahead (without time for looking for better words etc. and keeping thinking about what more I had to say) and of course couldn't go back to correct a wrong form, case etc. It was pretty frustrating.
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Zhuangzi
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Message 34 of 131

02 December 2007 at 3:27pm | IP Logged

Julie,

and in my experience, the more words you know the easier it is. Obviously your active vocabulary is greatest in your own language. I experience the same as you going into English my native language. I have no trouble going into French and Japanese, a little more into Mandarin and it goes down hill from there. It all relates to active vocabulary, in my experience.
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Hencke
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Message 35 of 131

02 December 2007 at 3:58pm | IP Logged

glossa.passion wrote:

furyou_gaijin wrote:

...
Pronunciation is traditionally the most underestimated component of the language study yet a very important one.

I've recently read in a foreword of a book, that a languagelearner should strive for 100 % pronounciation, 50 % grammar and 1 % vocabulary of a new language. Since I've read that, I reconsider my ways of language learning.

I think it could be interesting to have a bit more information about these, seemingly absurd, recommendations before rejecting it all out of hand. They could be exaggerating to make some kind of a point. It is also not clear to me what those percentages actually mean or how to measure them ? One per cent vocabulary sounds ridiculously low, but what is actually measured there, and what exactly is it one per cent of ?

Can you give us a reference to what that book was called, who it was by and perhaps a bit more about how they develop that philosophy further ?

Since you say you have reconsidered your language learning it appears you have taken at least some parts of it to heart. Surely there was more to it there to convince you than those slightly odd claims in the foreword.

Percentages aside, I totally agree that pronunciation has traditionally been a very underrated skill.

Edited by Hencke on 02 December 2007 at 4:07pm
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glossa.passion
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Message 36 of 131

02 December 2007 at 4:11pm | IP Logged

I have already opened this thread and I am pleased to answer your questions there.
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furyou_gaijin
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Message 37 of 131

02 December 2007 at 7:06pm | IP Logged

Zhuangzi wrote:

furyou_gaijin wrote:

Basically, the more words you know - the longer you think of HOW to say something in the target language. The
fewer words you have in your active vocab - the easier it is to come up with the translation. Measured in
milliseconds, but very valuable when you're out there in a cabin.

He also believed in monotonous delivery and avoiding (any) pauses: pauses and too much variety in intonation
wake up your listeners. And he used to say that most of your mistakes would pass unnoticed unless you yourself
would make a big deal out of them in front of your audience...

This has not been my experience. The more words I know in the target language, the easier and more natural is
my translation.

I see. How much have you worked in the cabin, though? Consecutive and simultaneous interpretation are two
completely different skill sets.

Zhuangzi wrote:

[QUOTE=furyou_gaijin]
at the United Nations and many other conferences the interpreter works solely into his native language. While
the translator/interpreter working from a native language into the foreign language has the advantage of fully
understanding a given text, a translation into a non-native language almost inevitably sounds awkward. As a
result of the stress of simultaneous interpretation, the interpreter into a non-native language is likely to make
serious errors in grammar, vocabulary, syntax and style.

This is one school of interpretation, others do admit that interpretation into a non-native language is feasible
(cf. Julie's post). The UN is a factory, very much the same way the European Commission has come to be. The
person I'm talking about was one of the old school, way above that kind of work (sadly, he passed away years
ago). Also, I am not argumenting his views, merely passing on what I was lucky to hear at the time...
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Zhuangzi
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Message 38 of 131

02 December 2007 at 7:27pm | IP Logged

Furyou gaijin

You ask if I have worked in the "cabin" and the answer is no, so I have no direct experience to draw from when it comes to simultaneous interpreting. I do not know if you have, although your statement seems to imply that you are of the "metier" and this statement makes sense to you.

Of course interpreting into a foreign language is feasible, but most people find it more difficult than interpreting into the native language, according to a cursory search on the web, and my own consecutive interpreting experience.

Therefore, when you said

"'the less (sic)
words you (as a simultaneous interpreter) have in your active vocabulary, the better...'

This usually makes perfect sense for those with some experience in the métier."

I found this quite contrary to my experience of interpreting. Searching in the Internet could find only one quote that stated that a certain "Davidenkoff" (going from memory) in Russia, supported this view but that it was very much the minority view, even of the "metier". Presumably that is why the UN etc. do not usually do it. In fact I would imagine that where they do it (gor from the A language to the B language, the interpreter has to be very strong in that B language, which presupposes a large vocabulary.

I have never done simultaneous interpreting.
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Zhuangzi
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Message 39 of 131

02 December 2007 at 7:45pm | IP Logged

furyou_gaijin wrote:

The UN is a factory, very much the same way the European Commission has come to be. The
person I'm talking about was one of the old school, way above that kind of work

I am curious to know what is this area of work "in the cabin" that is "way above" the work done at the UN and European Commission.
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furyou_gaijin
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Message 40 of 131

02 December 2007 at 8:06pm | IP Logged

Zhuangzi wrote:

You ask if I have worked in the "cabin" and the answer is no, so I have no direct experience
to draw from when it comes to simultaneous interpreting.

Thank you for confirming my original suspicions. As I said earlier, simultaneous and consecutive interpretation
are two different sets of skills.

Zhuangzi wrote:

Therefore, when you said
"'the less (sic)

Very true: I have a nasty habit of heavily editing my posts as my thought develops but only re-reading them once
they have been published (which is sometimes too late). I am also heavily handicapped by not having English as
my first language. Never to late to study, innit? :-)

Zhuangzi wrote:

Searching in the Internet could find only one quote that stated that a certain
"Davidenkoff" (going from memory) in Russia, supported this view but that it was very much the minority view,
even of the "metier".

I have never heard of the gentleman you mention (must be Polish!) yet I'm very flattered you've gone to the pain
of searching the
web for quotes. Quite honestly, I can't care less about the theoretical foundation of something that I stopped
doing years ago: I have seen people go backwards and forwards between languages in many ways and - most
significantly - other people willing to pay them good money for exhibiting that skill so it can't be that bad.

Zhuangzi wrote:

furyou_gaijin wrote:

The UN is a factory, very much the same way the European
Commission has come to be. The person I'm talking about was one of the old school, way above that kind of
work

I am curious to know what is this area of work "in the cabin" that is "way above" the work done at the UN and
European Commission.

Think of factories... off-the-peg clothing... the UN... daily debates... Then think of a bespoke tailor-made suit.
And with that image in mind - I'm off to bed. No more contributions for today.

Edited by furyou_gaijin on 02 December 2007 at 8:07pm

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