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 Language Learning Forum : Polyglots |  | |
| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6467 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 1 of 8 08 December 2007 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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I know that she is a best-selling novelist in France of Chinese origin. She came to the country when she was a young adult. Obviously, her written French is native level because she writes extensive novels in French that get published. But how is her spoken French? I saw her on a Korean interview show about the release of one of her books and the interpreter translated her answers from French to Korean. So she must be fluent as her answers were quite detailed and complex. But could she pass as a native speaker?
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 Keith Diglot Moderator JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6589 days ago 526 posts - 536 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 2 of 8 09 December 2007 at 1:42am | IP Logged | ||
Are you forgetting that published writers have editors? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6467 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 3 of 8 09 December 2007 at 2:05am | IP Logged | ||
No. Why would a publishing house choose a writer that couldn't even write correctly? I seriously doubt that her French is broken and there are copywriters making sense of gibberish. Editing is not rewriting. Editing is about checking the story for flow and organization and giving suggestions to the writer on how to address the subject more effectively. The novels she writes are historical and very detail-oriented based on the interview I saw of her. (They asked very specific questions about the plot and characters, etc.) She is a native speaker of Chinese, but conducted the interview in French, so I don't really think her French is horrible. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6702 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 4 of 8 09 December 2007 at 3:31am | IP Logged | ||
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It's possible that she has a 'ghost writer' or, even more realistically, maybe she had someone check her drafts for errors. It is also not that uncommon for people to use translators to translate their work so that it reaches a wider audience.
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| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6467 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 5 of 8 09 December 2007 at 5:23am | IP Logged | ||
I don't understand why people are doubting her ability to be fluent. There's no reason to be so pessimistic. Of course, it's possible. But what is the definitive truth? I'd like someone who is a native speaker of French to confirm her abilities as a speaker. If she did get someone to translate, then they would be credited for their work. Unless you have seen her speak French, how can you possibly know? Other than her writings, I don't think she is famous for any other reason in France. So why would they use a ghostwriter and not credit that individual? I can see that happening with a celebrity, but not someone who was not famous before their writing. She was an assistant to some famous French writer, perhaps Roland Barthes? I do know that the writer she worked for has a Japanese wife and daughter from that marriage. I seriously do not think he would hire someone who is not fluent in French to handle his business. Seriously. She was in Korea doing an interview in French, which was simultaneously interpreted into Korean. They had planned this interview in advance because they shot an interview in France at her home and workplace before the panel interview. There is no lack of Chinese-Korean interpreters in Korea. They exceed French interpreters in Korea by far. So it's not like they were desperate and had to find a French interpreter at the last minute. This program is very professional in the way they conduct interviews. They've had many foreign authors before. She was very poised and at ease the whole time, except for one part where one of the interviewers said something tasteless. The answers she gave dealt with Chinese history and how it influenced her novels. They were not simple answers, but dealt with lengthy historical explanations. Edited by jstele on 09 December 2007 at 5:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Keith Diglot Moderator JapanRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6589 days ago 526 posts - 536 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 8 09 December 2007 at 8:06am | IP Logged | ||
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I am not doubting her fluency in French nor did I imply that her French is broken. I simply challenged your logic. You stated that her French is native level simply because she has published a book in the language. My concern has nothing to do with the person, but has only to do with your reasoning and how you arrived at your conclusion.
Editing is about fixing mistakes. And editors do rewrite some things. That doesn't mean they change the story but they do do a lot of work. They do not simply give suggestions and advice. If a non-native speaker has a very interesting story to tell, the publisher would want to publish it and the writer would want any grammatical mistakes or other problems fixed. There are even native speakers need these kind of corrections. Anyway, if you want someone to tell you how her French is, you will need to find a video and post a link to it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 6702 days ago 909 posts - 942 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 7 of 8 09 December 2007 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not saying she isn't fluent, I'm just stating that writing a novel, no matter how complex the language used is, not does necessarily reflect her real abilities. After all, not all native speakers of a language would be able to write a well-written novel without asking *someone* to go through their draft and correct mistakes.
Since she moved to France when she was a young adult, it's possible that her French may have a few flaws. Maybe she wanted a native speaker to check her work to make sure it was all correct. I can't really understand why this would be a criticism or doubting her fluency as I would certainly ask a native speaker to check my work, regardless of how well I spoke a language. I wouldn't publish a book in Mandarin without asking at least one native speaker to check for errors. As to the original question of whether she can be considered a native speaker...it's hard to say as she was not born in France and presumably her parents are not French speakers themselves. Defining 'native speaker' is always tricky as there are many factors involved. If you learn a language when you're in your teens or older, I personally would not consider it a native language, even if you have native or near-native fluency in it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jstele Bilingual Senior Member United States Joined 6467 days ago 186 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Korean* | Message 8 of 8 09 December 2007 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is a video interview of her: http://www.lire.fr/video/shan//shan_jeu.htm
And another one: http://bibliographie.jeudego.org/la_joueuse_de_go_de_shan_sa .php Edited by jstele on 09 December 2007 at 6:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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