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How does shadowing improve fluency? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Mark0704 Diglot Newbie United Kingdom Joined 5889 days ago 5 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 33 of 39 29 June 2008 at 6:15am | IP Logged |
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Thank you all very much for detailed replies.
I will persist with Assimil to the end and then may commence Linguaphone (I have purchased the older style course with books and CD's from 1997 as the professor recommends the old format). I also have Assimil 'Using Spanish' waiting in the wings. I will search for other 'shadowing' materials based on my interests as Shinn has suggested. I have completed Michel Thomas 'Foundation' and 'Advanced' Spanish courses and thoroughly studied these before I commenced Assimil. I had absolutely no knowledge of Spanish before this and I found them remarkable. I feel that they quickly and effortlessly gave me the essential grammatical structure of the language and have enabled me to work out many verb congugations for myself and to recongnise the different verb forms when I see or hear them. Basically Michel Thomas gave simple, well organised and easily remembered 'boxes' in which to slot my future Spanish learning and the main things that I seem to be lacking now are vocabulary and idioms, which Assimil has been providing. I do have a huge amount of gratitute towards and respect for the late Mr Thomas. Without his explanations of the language structure I would have never become interested in learning a second language (I previously perceived it as far too difficult, boring and time consuming). Furthermore, I would have not been able to follow and understand Assimil as quickly and easily. I am convinced I would have given up at an early stage as the verb cunguagtions in Assimil quickly become complex with rather little in the way of explanation. Regarding the 'active phase' of Assimil. I have not done this as it would seem to be very time consuming and possibly quite boring. I was hoping that shadowing and internalising all the text in the way that is described on this website might be sufficient. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5754 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 34 of 39 10 September 2008 at 10:34pm | IP Logged |
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To those who shadow, how many times do you listen to the recording before you can recite it? Already able to understand much of L'Etranger, I read of shadowing and cut out a 60 second segment from the book's second chapter. I've listened repeatedly to this little piece for three days and, while I can understand 70%, and often remember exactly what is about to be spoken, I simply can't say the words.
Am I missing something? It seems shadowing comes easier to those who have done it. Thanks, Michael Williams Edited by glidefloss on 10 September 2008 at 10:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6695 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 39 11 September 2008 at 6:16pm | IP Logged |
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Depending on what you shadow, and what the aim is, the outcome can vary a bit. I have not yet read anything here about reciting entire passages as being one of the goals, and while Professor Arguelles has said something about reciting Assimil lessons in the shower (if my memory serves), those are mainly dialogues, and thus stick quite easily - especially after quite a few listenings.
I think the ability to recite text after shadowing has a lot do with the fact that you have "produced" it yourself a lot of times (by speaking out loud). Jeff Lindqvist 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| glidefloss Senior Member United States Joined 5754 days ago 138 posts - 154 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 36 of 39 11 September 2008 at 7:53pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for the comment Jeff. I don't think I was clear enough in my last post. I was hoping to eventually recite entire passages, but at the moment I'm merely trying to shadow a small 60 second segment of French. I can repeat words in time, and I can repeat some of the phrases immediately after they are spoken, but despite the amount of great time I've invested, I'm simply not able to shadow. If I understand the technique correctly, you've got to have the segment memorized entirely before reciting it along with the recording. Is this correct? Maybe I would have an easier time with dialogues.
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| Jimmymac Senior Member United Kingdom strange-lands.com/le Joined 5939 days ago 276 posts - 362 votes Studies: Spanish, Mandarin, French | Message 37 of 39 12 September 2008 at 4:40am | IP Logged |
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Glidefloss,
I believe the answer to your question lies in the duraion of your study as well as the repetition involved. 3 days may not be enough to completely memorize a passage simply becuase language must be fully internalized. In effect, learning is a biological as well as cognitive process whereby the physical aspect of your memories (e.g. synaptic development) is still being created. It would appear that three consecutive days to memorize a 60 second dialogue may not be sufficient. For example, one of the reasons the active phase in assimil is seemingly effective is simply that 2 months have elapsed since you studied the dialogue (or less depending on revision sessions) and the physical memories/cognitive restructuring aided by revision have had time develop. I, for example, have had greater results shadowing the same assimil lesson for an hour and a half spread over 6 days than for the same amount of time spread over two (maybe this could go in the more time/best method debate). Often, when we encounter a difficult situation we will walk away from it for a period of time only to return to it and find the problem has solved itself, or at least, is much easier to deal with. After all this I fear I can only point out the obvious and say greater repitition along with more time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6695 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 38 of 39 12 September 2008 at 4:58pm | IP Logged |
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Glidefloss: in fact I do NOT memorize anything before shadowing - I just listen and repeat "instantaneously" what I hear. If I shadow the same material over and over, some things stick, and get pronounced in better unison. Memorizing the text will probably help, if it's indeed your goal to be able to produce it in perfect unison. And as Jimmymac says, things get a lot easier if you spread the exercise over more days.
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| thairob Triglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6054 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese, Thai Studies: Mandarin | Message 39 of 39 10 November 2008 at 8:13pm | IP Logged |
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Here is an interesting article that illustrates why shadowing or a similar technique is so beneficial for language acquisition.
Article Edited by thairob on 10 November 2008 at 8:21pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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