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Polish: another attempt

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blindsheep
Triglot
Senior Member
Spain
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503 posts - 507 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Spanish
Studies: German

 
 Message 121 of 154
01 April 2008 at 10:29am | IP Logged 
I've been using Open Office, but I must say, I'm getting rather tired of its incredible slowness. I may actually switch to some version of Word...
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duallanguage
Newbie
United States
duallanguagebooks.co
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15 posts - 15 votes
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 Message 123 of 154
01 April 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged 
bacchanalian wrote:
I haven't tried LR yet, but more than one person, including atamagaii, wrote that you would be fine without
parallel texts. Further, I recall atamagaii writing that you should not make your own parallel texts unless you
already know the target language well.




Indeed, I've found that all you need to learn a language is a lot of exposure where you understand 'what's going on', if not the words themselves; time and exposure takes care of the rest. With or without parallel texts, if you have those things, you're good. For instance, if you have two separate books, that will work just fine.

I use dual language texts because they make it simpler and easier for me to understand 'what's going on' when I'm listening to the audiobook and reading the foreign text. It's nice to not have to flip back and forth between texts. I can focus on the story and not lose my place.

Along with audiobooks, parallel texts have really simplified language learning.
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Iversen
Super Polyglot
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Denmark
berejst.dk
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 Message 124 of 154
02 April 2008 at 6:54am | IP Logged 
kealist wrote:

Sorry for filling up your thread with questions, but what software do you use for parallel texts?   Open Office?   I am getting sick of trying to do this in Word (the bugs in the program become VERY apparent quickly), and I'm going to try my hand at using LaTeX for parallel text creation in the next couple days.


Sorry for cluttering Volte's thread with computer talk, but I have made interlaced bilingual texts doing this:

I work in two windows in Word, which I put one above the other. There I chop up the texts in corresponding single lines. You might expect this to be impossible due to differences in the texts, but at least with the languages I have worked with the problems are much smaller than I expected.

OK, now the lines more or less correspond. Then I transfer both versions to Excel. I make the following columns:
A: a in all cells, B: 1,2,3 ... C: the lines in language A
D: b in all cells, E: 1,2,3 ... F: the lines in language B

At this stage I can make adjustments if the lines in fact didn't correspond. When this is settled I change the colour and font of column C (or column F). Finally I cut out columns D,E,F and put them below the content of columns A,B,C and sort the whole thing on columns B,A. Now I have an interlaced text, where each language has its own colour and font. I then cut column C and return it to Word, where it will show up as a table, whose dividing lines I can make invisible. And this is basically my bilingual interlaced text, though I may make minor cosmetic changes to get both versions on the same page at page breaks.

Doing page-to-page bilinguals is easier, - though I put both languages on the same page (which makes it easier to jump back and forth). I use one of the following two techniques: I have each version in a word document, and then I make a new empty documents with either columns (that end at the bottom of each page) or a two-column table on each page. The I simply use cut and paste to put equivalent chunks from the two versions into the columns. To make the paragraphs match I regulate the column widths to get the paragraphs to fit as closely as possible, and if this isn't quite possible then I add empty lines or (in some cases) remove linebreaks.

This is easy and fast to do, but I prefer the interlaced versions while I'm really a novice, and after that stage I try to avoid translations unless I have to check my understanding of difficult passages.


Edited by Iversen on 02 April 2008 at 7:18am

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blindsheep
Triglot
Senior Member
Spain
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Speaks: English*, French, Spanish
Studies: German

 
 Message 125 of 154
02 April 2008 at 9:32am | IP Logged 
Iversen,

For the interlaced method, how much time does this typically take? For example a 150 page novel would take what approximate amount of time to prepare?

Thanks!
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Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 6572 days ago

9078 posts - 16473 votes 
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 Message 126 of 154
02 April 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged 
Too much time to be a realistic possibility, and it is the chopping up of the texts that takes almost all the time. I have done several of H.C.Andersen's tales in one evening, but never 2x150 interlaced pages of anything. It would take weeks.

Interlaced bilinguals can be used for intensive reading, where you try to understand all the words and all the grammar involved. That's what I typically have used them for. They would also be just perfect for the L-R method IF you could get enough of them plus the corresponding audio, but that isn't easy. Instead you may have to settle for a columnwise edition, which is much faster to produce. However in all the situations where you might use such an edition, you could also just keep two boks within reach, because while listening you probably can't get time enough to let your gaze flicker from one version to the other, you have to stick with either the translation or the original. Please contradict me if anybody can do this without losing track of where they are in the text(s).


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Volte
Tetraglot
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Switzerland
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 Message 127 of 154
02 April 2008 at 1:40pm | IP Logged 
Iversen wrote:
However in all the situations where you might use such an edition, you could also just keep two boks within reach, because while listening you probably can't get time enough to let your gaze flicker from one version to the other, you have to stick with either the translation or the original. Please contradict me if anybody can do this without losing track of where they are in the text(s).


I can, as long as I've had a few hours of exposure. Furthermore, I can do it when both languages are foreign (I did so with "The Little Prince" using a Spanish-French text, after a Spanish-English one, with Spanish audio both times). I can also do so when speeding up the audio, as I've done for "The Master and Margarita"; double speed was still quite doable. Faster would also have been - I would have preferred it, frankly - but audio distortion becomes too much of an issue, and short unstressed syllables become nearly impossible to hear.

In all events, for especially difficult passages, I do stick with one language (usually the one I'm stronger in) or the other, but these passages are a very small minority.

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brian00321
Senior Member
United States
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143 posts - 148 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: German

 
 Message 128 of 154
02 April 2008 at 2:17pm | IP Logged 
Volte wrote:

Faster would also have been - I would have preferred it, frankly - but audio distortion becomes too much of an issue, and short unstressed syllables become nearly impossible to hear.


If you don't want audio distortion I highly recommend DJ-ing
software for speeding up sound (BPM). The most important
thing is not losing any audio quality. I use MixMeister
(oh, the good amateur dj-ing days) and it works like a charm
with anything and everything. The interface is clean and simple
to use also. Give it a shot and you might end up liking it.


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