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Reducing Self-Study Method Abandonment | ||
Tags: Burn-out | Self-Study | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5200 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes  Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 1 of 139 26 August 2013 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think most would agree that the biggest problem with self-study methods is that very few learners finish them.
This was obvious during the Assimil Experiment conducted on this site where the vast majority of learners -- dedicated language lovers to boot! -- gave up before the end, myself included. To be precise, people gave up on the book, not necessarily on their learning... they often just moved on to other things. This problem also makes it very hard to determine what level a method will bring you to (or evaluate claims about such a level) since so few ever go through the entire method! Traditional, linear methods almost always fail to keep the students' interest until the end. A book can still be good and useful nonetheless, but it's an odd concept to be writing and selling books virtually no one will finish... After all, we could be buying shorter, more efficient books for cheaper! So, the question I'd like to ask is the following: thinking about all the language methods you didn't finish, how could they have been improved or what could the authors have done in order to encourage more learners to finish all of the lessons? Why do we give up? How can a method encourage students to persist and keep them motivated until the end? Do you know of any innovative ideas that could help or ideas you saw implemented that worked to keep you motivated? Are all these books too long? Is the idea of a "complete" lesson package unreasonable and overly ambitious? Should we make shorter books and offer more levels within a series? What if the typical Assimil book was split into 2 or 3 levels? Would people still give up before the end (as if we were only capable of enough attention and motivation to make it close to the end) or would we finish, but not buy the next level? I'm looking forward to reading your opinion on the matter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4828 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 2 of 139 26 August 2013 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't think they are too long or too "complete", quite the opposite most times. And by splitting books in more volumes, the whole thing would just be more expensive for sure. And instead, you would be asking "how to make more learners use volume 2 and 3 as well".The trouble lies elsewhere in my opinion.
First of all, there is always a preface like "how to use the book" and this is more important chapter than many people think. First get rid of the articles like "a bit every day". It is impossible for many of us either for objective reasons or for personal ones. And many people start having troubles coming back after a few days they didn't open the book. It's like trying a reduction diet. Most clever specialists found out how important it is to let people know one mistake isn't that important, important is to not beat yourself up and get going again. It is similar. Second: one of the reasons why so few people finish the books is that they no longer feel like making progress. We all know the awesome feelings from the first few chapters with your shiny new language. It is easy to know twice as much as yesterday all the time during the first two weeks. But then, the process slows down from the point of view of our feelings. And many learners are like the people who enjoy the first month or two of dating someone and than give up and go relive it with someone else (another language, another beginner textbook or another learning method) instead of building a good quality long term relationship. I can see two easy things to help learners with that. 1.include more tests. there are already some books with them and it is great. you do some exercises, count your points and get feedback telling you "you learned that much! keep going, you are awesome." 2.incorporate native material as soon as possible. count on the fact that people want to supplement the book with other things. But instead of putting one stupid song with the lyrics and boring exercises in the book (does anyone else hate vast majority of songs authors put in textbooks?), just put a variety of links at the end of each chapter or just ideas what to look for. Perhaps two or three songs, a wikipedia article, cooking blog, advertising website, hotel search engine or anything else relevant could keep people going. Real things, not prechewed boring ones. There was something else on my mind but I forgot it during writing. Nevermind. 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5200 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 139 26 August 2013 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
While I agree there would be value in educating readers on how to get back on track (or even suggest breaking/reentry points during lessons?), this surely isn't why most participants in the Assimil Experiment gave up, and most certainly didn't need to read instructions on how to study...
So, the importance of getting back after an inevitable pause and upholding the feeling of progress with tests and native material. Noted. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4728 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 4 of 139 26 August 2013 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
I read something interesting in the article about 50 years of FSI experience. Here's a quote from the article:
This helped me to come to terms with my experience over two years of learning French. I started with Assimil pretty near the beginning of my studies, and now I'm up to chapter 89. I had periods when I did a lesson every day, but they didn't last long. However, I rarely have had a day when I didn't study French in some way or other. I was planning on polishing off at least the passive wave this 6wc, but other things took my interest (mostly reading and FSI). But what does it mean to finish a coursebook? I would certainly feel a sense of achievement. But if I pushed to finish Assimil over the past 2 months instead of the other activities I have done, would I be better at French? I don't think so. Routine is essential so that you keep on going. But variety and change of pace is essential as well. I use Assimil and it works very well. But after a few weeks I feel like I'm making less progress, so either I go back and review old lessons, or I put it aside and do other things. When I'm ready, I pick up Assimil again. Very few of us have finished Assimil in the 115 days it takes, or Pimsleur in 90 days, etc. But I think that's just part of the way you have to learn something as all-encompassing as a language. So here's the point: I think it is good to plan to finish a language course. But it's probably best to plan to do so in stages. (EDIT: here's the link to the pdf: http://www.geolanguage.org/archives/sla/gurt_1999_07.pdf) Edited by Jeffers on 26 August 2013 at 10:43pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4484 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 5 of 139 26 August 2013 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I finished the "Passive Wave" of Assimil French, but by the time I was most of the way through the "Active" part, I felt that I was ready to do other activities (like talking with people) that were more interesting. It seems like there may be a paradox in that the better a method is at teaching you the language, the more it will give you the sense of being an independent speaker, reader, and listener, and thus tempt you to abandon the "text" and spend your time with native speakers and native media instead (and I think seasoned language learners would be likely to feel ready earlier rather than later). But that sense of being "independent" enough to move on to other things depends on a lot of factors, not least of which is whatever other learning aids you use while you are working through the text, so it seems quite hard to make a book that will be the right length for everyone. Edited by tastyonions on 26 August 2013 at 11:05pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4828 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 6 of 139 26 August 2013 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, I understand that's not why the Assimil Experiments gave up but it is actually the reason why I gave up on Assimil as a main resource three times already and don't have the courage to try use it the designed way again. It is hard to come back after a day or two every once and then in Assimil.
I remembered what I forgot while writing last time: the variety of exercises. What do I mean: -too few output exercises. while those in the classroom meant books sometimes make the courses worse for self-study, the authors of self-study courses often resign on them completely. There should be ideas for people to speak with themselves or to write short texts (and revise them a few weeks later perhaps). There is one such topic or question per lesson, if you are lucky. And it's sometimes hard to think of these for yourself. Or to find some that would be relevant but not boring. -good input damaged by dumbed down exercises. There is often a good article or audio and than there are questions. And they are far too easy, just asking about the very basic gist. Those could be ok if there were following questions that would actually require you to listen to the audio more times, make sure you understand everything, think a bit. Questions that wouldn't treat you as if you were stupid or a child. One more thing! Many books would be much more interesting if they stepped out of the "correct" frame and cliche, the multi-culti dogmas and the narrow choice of things they believe the learners are interested in. I am really bored to find a hundred and first story of a just arrived foreign student and their native friend. Or an at all costs multi national group of students. And I am actually a student who would like to go to the country the same way the character does. What do the older, working people with families think of that? The same applies to the one sided presentation of many topics (even though this is more present in the class meant courses). The good and discriminated minorities, the awesome alternative sources of energy, the women facing discrimination, anyone else facing discrimination and so on. I have enough of the one sided propaganda in many medias, why would I want to open a language textbook and find the same things there? I think the courses should go back to the way of "My tailor is rich". Or perhaps even further. I have several ideas for alternative text book stories after just a few seconds of thinking. Why don't the authors have them during the months or years of creating a course? Because working with new ideas probably requires too much work in their eyes. 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5249 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 7 of 139 26 August 2013 at 11:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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There seems to be a distinction between giving up on a specific method (i.e. Assimil) and giving up on the language. The former seems to be the real problem.
I don't have the answer to the question of why people give up on methods. Is it because it is difficult to sustain interest when you are completely on your own? We should keep in mind that most people do finish traditional courses when they have to pay big bucks and pass an exam. Part or much of the problem is maybe in the design of the products. Part of the problem is probably in the lack of motivation or interest of people who do not have a real need to learn. It might be instructive to look at the other extreme. Every year a significant number of people pay about $10,000 (all expenses included) for a 5 to 7 week intensive summer language course at Middlebury College in Vermont. And they are required to sign a language pledge to use the language exclusively on campus. I'm sure that barring some tragic events everybody finishes the program, and I gather that most people are very satisfied with the results. Compare that to the $99 online package or that $500 program that shall remain nameless. We know that probably over 90% of the buyers never finish these programs. I suggest that lack of real or perceived need is the fundamental problem. If you don't have a real need for learning something, you won't get very far. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5585 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 8 of 139 27 August 2013 at 12:02am | IP Logged | |||||
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As somebody who either operates on deadlines or on intrinsic motivation, I tend to give up within two weeks, when the novelty factor wears off. And I still have a lot of course left ...
I think, for me a major problem is that most authors try to make their course easy to understand. If I understood my psych teacher correctly, people follow a certain pattern when explaining their own actions to themselves. One part of it is that when we do things out of the ordinary, we tend to look for external factors that might have motivated us. And when those external factors we attributed the motivation to aren't present anymore, our motivation drops - for example when you pay students to study, they tend to study less than they used to do before once they don't get paid anymore. Reversely, when an activity is considered unpleasant but there doesn't seem to be extrinsic motivation, people tend to report more intrinsic motivation for doing it after they've tried it than before, probably because they can't explain to themselves why they should voluntarily do something they hate doing. For me that means that simply 'having done' the lesson of the day just ... don't give me enough satisfaction to do the next lesson the next day. Being explained things in a very easily comprehensible way often makes them boring. Knowing I have the word list and grammar explanations and answer key at hand makes it feel like there is no need to put in more effort and memorize everything by heart. And then I slack, or at least I only put in enough effort to understand the new material, not to be able to use it. Until I something else catches my attention and I forget about the course. Now, what helps me are exercises that: - don't follow one clearly predictable pattern so you just look at the rule and apply it several times - test the content that has been learnt up until then For example, the Korean DLI or FSI course has replacement drill exercises in which you are given a sentence to start with, then you are to replace, for example, the subject twice - and then you suddenly have to replace the verb, or the object, or a complement. And your job is to figure out which part of a sentence every new expression can become, and to form the new sentence with your old one and the new expression. Quickly. It's exciting. I also find comprehension exercises to be too easy, as you usually only have to scan the text or listen for specific information like numbers or names. That makes it easy to learn how to disregard unimportant details, like particles, articles, gender ... And I'd likt to have a page to mark down the exercises with a score key, and with a guideline that for example any exercise I'd scored in less than 80% should be done again one of the next days. For me, the ideal course would consist of blocks than can be done in one to two weeks, with a test at the end of the block, and another test at the start of the next block, which would take from the entire material learnt up until then. And no 'spot the error' tasks. Never. They are torture. )= ETA: Investing money can work as a way of convincing ourselves our motivation must've been high from the start. Edited by Bao on 27 August 2013 at 2:08pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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