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Thread on "Language Banditry" | ||
Tags: Language Banditry | Immersion | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 105 of 140 21 April 2009 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
Good guess ... yes, it was in Gambia. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5846 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 106 of 140 21 April 2009 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Sorry, I don't understand the expression "language banditory". Can someone give me a short definition, please?
Fasulye-Babylonia 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jar-ptitsa Triglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 5897 days ago 980 posts - 1006 votes Speaks: French*, Dutch, German | Message 107 of 140 21 April 2009 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
it's like organized crime, but connected at language, for example a person manipulate you for practise German, like a gangster. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6748 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 108 of 140 22 April 2009 at 12:34am | IP Logged | |||||
Language Bandit is a colloquial term. Many westerners who are residents in Japanese use a similar term Eigo Bandit (English Language Bandit). Other names include Language Beggar, Language Leech, Language Rapist, Language Vampire, et cetera. They are people who, when we are in there country, do a number of things. For example, Attempt to befriend English speakers (or speakers of any other language, though mostly widely spread lingua francas like English) for the sole reason of using them for English practice, or even just to show off or look cool. Some are real users! Demand free English lessons from westerners (apparantly this happens a lot in China where people are more blunt and direct than say the Japanese). Insist on speaking English with us, even if our command of the local language is much better! Refuse to speak with us except for in English because they have the principle of only speaking to foreigners in English. (I know of some people in Japan who feel that they should only speak to westerners in English because in their own minds Japanese is not a white people language! And if their English isn't up for the task they would rather not speak at all than speak Japanese! - Thank God people with such extremist views are a very small minority!) Enroach on our privacy at inconvenient times just to practice English. Complain that we don't use English with them. Do dishonest things like pretent that they cannot understand our X language and demand that we speak in Y language just so that they can either practice English or show off (whatever their motive may be). People who just rudely shout stuff at us in English just for having the appearance of a native English speaker. People who display aggression towards us if we don't speak English. Even host families can really be users who only take in foreign students for English practice! I have heared stories about host families from hell! A lot of people trivialize and laugh about the matter of what some term colloquially Language Banditry, but it can be really serious. I have read alot of stories about people feeling bullied and harrassed by foreigners for English practice. Parasitius, a member of this forum, has written a lot about his experiences in China. He says that there, it is a serious problem for him because everyone everyday harrasses him to speak to him in English just because he is an American (who speaks Chinese by the way). He has made a particularly well made blog on it in my opinion. If you have interest, here it is. http://englishbanditry.com/survey/banditsurvey.php I hope I have answered you question. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5923 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 109 of 140 22 April 2009 at 12:35am | IP Logged | |||||
Edited by mick33 on 22 April 2009 at 12:36am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6748 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 110 of 140 22 April 2009 at 1:31am | IP Logged | |||||
I am glad that you brought up the topic of people thinking that we are an a$$hole because we only speak the target language and not English. There has been somethings that I have wanted to mention for a while. The first thing that comes to mind is the comments of my host mother in Japan. Of course I spoke nothing but Japanese because after all it was an immersion program. That was why I was there in the first place! However, my hostmother didn't like my attitude, thought it was unacceptable and told me that I had some kind of OBLIGATION to speak English with Japanese people who wanted to speak English! I replied "why? most have no interest in my culture, just English language practice!". She said, "they have no interest in you! But you still have to talk to them in English!". But exactly why? I didn't get an answer. To be honest I think she was just bitter because she thought her English would be way better than my Japanese. It turns out she was wrong! And it turns out I only spoke Japanese! The other time I am made out to be a a$$hole is when people who don't even know anything about studying languages make me out to be the "bad guy"! I have debated about this with my cousins! They are always maintaining that they "only want to learn" and that I am bad for not helping everyone I encounter! Oh I am sorry that I don't have enough time to be some kind of non-profit charity organization for people who I don't even know and who don't really care about me! My response to that is this. I don't feel any guilt anymore for refusing to speak English with people when I am abroad studying languages! Why? Because there is no excuse just to see everyone as a target for language practice! If someone really wants to practice English, it is not as if we are not their only hope! There are tons of study materials for studying English out there to help them and with modern technology like the internet and such it is really easy to make contact with English speakers online (At least it is this way in Japan and most economically advanced countries). I am sure that there is an abundance of language exchange sites. In my opinion, with all this available, despite this if people just see us as language practice targets they are just getting gready! I once wrote a blog on why there is no need to go about harrassing all native speakers when one is learning a language. I breifly remember that Barry Farber mentions something similar. Having explained the actual situation, I think the " they only want to learn! You have a duty to help them! If not you'r mean and unfriendly!" idea really doesn't sound convincing or well thought. On a side note, I want to say that I feel sorry for those native Anglophone language learners who arrive abroad in the country of the target language and then end up thinking that "they owe everything to the world!" Parasitius touches on this a little in his blog. We all know them! The " I am so friendly! I wanna be friends with everyone" westerner. Why quite a lot of westerners feel they have a sense of obligation to give in when pressured to speak English instead of asserting that they are here to study the local language, I don't know! I have found that the Japanese exchange students on English language exchange programs who I know get all pissy when English people here try to talk to them in Japanese! (And they have it way easier than us! What is the probability that you are going to bump in to a Japanese speaking British speaker in an average street in Britain! You'd have a long time even finding a French speaking one!) That is because they are smart! They know that they are here to learn English! So I have the same mindframe when I am abroad! Total immersionist! The idea that someone is unfriendly because he/she only speaks the target language is not a valid reason to label him/her as unfriendly, mean or anything like this. I believe than any person who believes that it is unfriendly behaviour is just a slave to the condition I have previously mentioned. "The Anglophone who believes he/she owes it all the the world!". Yes friendly nice guy Mr. Keith, I don't think I am any less friendlier than you just on the grounds that I only speak the target language when I am abroad! In fact I know a lot of language learners who are perfectly nice people, real good guys, honest, no problems with them, who at the same time actually go as far as ignoring/ refusing to acknowledge people unless they are spoken to in nothing but the target language! I have never gone this far like these guys, some may say these guys are real bullholes for it, but apart from that they are very sound and decent guys and just want to be treat like anyone else in the country. Edited by Maximus on 22 April 2009 at 1:42am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5846 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 111 of 140 22 April 2009 at 1:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thank you Maximus for explaining this phenomenon to me. I have never experienced such behaviour. I only have very limited experiences in foreign countries, but in France people spoke unanimously French with me, in Flanders Dutch and in the Netherlands Dutch and in Wallonia French. Only in Denmark I myself chose to speak English, but that was because I still don't speak Danish. Many, many years ago I was on holidays in the French speaking part of Zwitserland, but also there I could speak French with the local people. So therefore for me it is a very unknown behaviour of people.
Fasulye-Babylonia 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Maximus Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6748 days ago 417 posts - 427 votes Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Thai | Message 112 of 140 22 April 2009 at 1:52am | IP Logged | |||||
No problem! I am pleased you took interest in the matter so really I should be thanking you! In Europe, it doesn't seem that problematic. People are accustomed to multilingualism and English isn't anything mysterious or particularly exciting. The only western European language I know is Spanish and I have never had any problems there. However, it is East Asia where this phenomena is abundant. Because we Europeans look physically different from Asians, many associate that "white skin equals English speaker". They don't seem to understand any concept of diversity between the peoples of Europe. There are also cases when some Asians always assume that non-Asians can't possibly know Asian languages because unlike Europe many are not so used to multilingualism. Just like I have mentioned before. Many assumptions are just born out of ignorance and a complete lack of logic. Also I must not forget to include fetishization of English! Many think of it as if it was the next fad or something and want to show off with it. In Europe it is just like "you speak English? So what? Many people do!". You couldn't possibly make yourself so different to everyone else by learning English in a lot of places in Europe. If you have only studied European languages before, chances are you won't have had a chance to experience it. Edited by Maximus on 22 April 2009 at 2:55am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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