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5 years of 日本語 TAC 13 桜/Schnitzel | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 209 of 436 09 May 2013 at 7:47pm | IP Logged |
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Last night after getting exceptionally annoyed with Anki I uninstalled everything, deleted all my decks (and made sure to empty the recycle bin too).
It felt good. I then studied chapter 31 in Kanji in Context, actually following the instructions in the book. 1. Memorise the keyword for each kanji 2. Study the kanji and example vocabulary to get a feel for the meaning and usage of the kanji 3. Memorise the unmarked vocabulary for each kanji (vocab the authors think are not necessary yet are marked as such in the reference book) 4. Study the usage of the vocabulary in the workbook, making sure you know the reading and meaning of all highlighted words Obviously the memorisation process is not going to be as "perfect" as it would be if I put everything into an SRS system. But I reviewed the workbook chapter again this evening and my recall was pretty good - there was only one sentence where I had to look something up again in the dictionary, and the word I had to look up wasn't a highlighted one (法則: rule, law - maybe I'll remember it now). At the bottom of each workbook chapter all the relevant kanji for that chapter are also listed so I could also test my recognition of the individual characters, which was good enough to keep me satisfied (I could tell the difference between 論倫輪輸 after all). I'm a little annoyed that I didn't time how long I spent with the Reference Book and Workbook last night, but since my post about Anki rage was made at 9.34pm and I packed up and went to bed at around 10.30pm, I can say with reasonable confidence it took less than an hour. My previous method took at least twice as long per chapter, without even factoring in time to review in Anki. (Edit: I timed chapter 32. It took just 30 minutes. I was previously spending up to 2 hours per chapter.) But basically, if my recall drops to 50% compared to my previous method, I think I'll still be winning considering the fact I'll be spending half as much time on it. Plus I've noticed the real extent to which words, expressions and even whole sentences are repeated throughout the workbook, so they've made a real conscious attempt to build in a certain amount of repetition anyway. And finally, chapter 31 gets you to kanji no. 502 in the course. And in the workbook in this chapter is this gem of a sentence: 漢字は ５００字 くらい 覚える までは 大変ですが、 その後は 比較的 楽です。 I hope it's true. Edited by g-bod on 09 May 2013 at 11:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 210 of 436 09 May 2013 at 10:28pm | IP Logged |
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Over the last couple of weeks I've been making some enquiries about arranging some Japanese lessons with a tutor via Skype. I now have a lesson arranged for tomorrow. In preparation, the tutor has sent me a couple of articles to read, which I've been doing this evening, the idea being we can use them as the basis of a discussion tomorrow. I'm very happy with this approach so far!
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| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 211 of 436 11 May 2013 at 1:04am | IP Logged |
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The trial lesson via Skype went really well today. I made a few stupid mistakes today but they were the kind of mistakes one can learn from, so it was definitely worth the effort. I'm hoping to take regular lessons, twice a week, to really try and build some active skills, which in turn should help me get more out of my weekly language exchange.
I definitely didn't feel as in control of the language as I would have liked today but there was a real positive in that for the first time I got a real feel for specific weaknesses (i.e. certain expressions that I understand with no problems, but could not form them quickly enough when I needed them). I also feel like I have more of a sense of a kind of level I could realistically aim for over the next few months. It won't be C2 mega-fluency or anything, but it will be a more comfortable place than I am at present! My new approach to Kanji in Context is also working surprisingly well. I guess my previous method was definitely over-labouring it. I've covered one lesson a day, three days in a row, and have not found myself in a kanji-related mess yet. In fact, it's great to be able to cover so much, incorporate some review, and still have loads of time left over to kick back with books and TV shows. I've started reading another book by 村上春樹, although this time it's non fiction. I'm reading 走ることについて語るときに僕の語ること. It's too early to draw any conclusions on the content, but the one thing coming through already, as with レキシントンの幽霊, is how surprisingly readable he is. I know I was complaining a few days ago about the fact that I was struggling to set any real goals in Japanese at the moment. But now I think that really all I want to do is actually round out my skills, which is a little hard to define in very concrete terms. I want to have more conversations where I feel comfortable and in control of the language. I want to feel comfortable with any contemporary novel or essay aimed at a general reader (assuming that I actually have an interest in the content, of course!). And I want to continue plugging the gaps in my listening comprehension. Anyway, I think being able to speak Japanese 3 times a week will help with the conversational side of things. For reading, I need to just read more, and continue with Kanji in Context for as long as it feels useful. And if I continue reading more and watching TV, I hope that this will at least take care of some of the gaps in my listening. Altogether I'm feeling quite positive. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 212 of 436 11 May 2013 at 2:39am | IP Logged |
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Are these skype lessons from a language school in Japan? If you recommend it, post a link.
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| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 213 of 436 11 May 2013 at 9:21am | IP Logged |
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Yes. As soon as I've had some regular lessons, rather than just a trial lesson, I will!
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| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 214 of 436 17 May 2013 at 9:31pm | IP Logged |
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I had my first regular lesson with my Japanese tutor on Monday and it was just as good as the trial lesson so I feel at least now I can recommend the school I used, which is Japanese Online School at www.j-os.com. The support staff are very hands on and interviewed me via Skype after I made the lesson request (informally, and mainly in English). But as a result, I'm really happy with the tutor they've allocated and the format of the lessons.
However, just as I started to feel like I was getting back on a roll with my Japanese studies, I was struck down by a bad cold! I had to cancel my lesson later in the week and for a couple of days I wasn't able to do much beyond lying on the sofa watching undemanding TV shows. The fact that undemanding TV now includes certain J-dramas that I know very well was at least some consolation. Anyway, now I'm (almost) recovered and ready to return to the positivity I was feeling when I posted on 11th May. I'm really hoping I can spend the next few weeks giving my Japanese level a real boost. In order to do that I probably need to spend a little less time on HTLAL though. Not to say that HTLAL hasn't filled my head with more interesting ideas about what I should be doing recently. A few days ago I read about the principle of "narrow reading" in a thread which unfortunately I cannot find again now (edit: found it!). It's a concept supported by Krashen which basically suggests restricting your reading to one genre, or even one author, that you really enjoy, gives a good boost to your overall reading ability. I think the idea is that it really concentrates the "natural SRS effect" of reading, since the same kinds of vocabulary and expressions should be turning up all the time. I've decided I'm going to give this a go with 村上春樹. Maybe he's a bit more literary than you are supposed to go for with narrow reading, however the only proper adult book I've read from cover to cover was a volume of his short stories, I'm now reading a non-fiction book by him, and I find his writing style very readable, very likeable, and I want to read more (which is probably the most important criteria anyway). I was also interested by some of the discussions that have been had about the value of structured study at more advanced levels, in particular Cavesa's recent thread here. I think it's obvious that my work with Kanji in Context definitely fits the bill for developing kanji and vocabulary in a structured way, especially now I've made it a much less time intensive exercise. But I've also been dabbling with a couple of intermediate grammar books and thinking about trying to get some kind of structured review of grammar into my routine too. Nothing too intensive, just enough to help unlock a bit more comprehension and, hopefully, my active skills too. I've decided I'm going to go with the 新完全マスター文法N2 for this task. I know it sounds a bit weird that I'm studying a JLPT N2 grammar book when I've already passed the exam, but to be fair I never really studied it before sitting the exam in the first place! Anyway, I don't think a perfect textbook solution to intermediate grammar troubles exists for Japanese but at least the 新完全マスター book groups expressions together in a logical way, contains relatively good explanations (at least by Japanese textbook standards) and comes with an answerbook (even though most of the quizzes are dominated by JLPT style drills but I will balance this out by trying to make my own sentences). The main thing for me now is to get a good balance of time between doing structured study and actually using the language. I intend to watch more TV (the couch potato path to perfect comprehension), carry out an experiment in narrow reading as I set out above, and practice speaking and writing in my lessons and language exchange two or three times a week. I think any structured study should naturally take second place to all of this. But it's really too easy to focus on the structured study side of things. Maybe it's because a good textbook has already broken things down into bite sized chunks for you. I could post every day about how I finished yet another chapter in Kanji in Context, or covered yet another expression in Kanzen Master, and give the impression of progress. But talking about extensive reading and listening activities doesn't seem to have the same momentum, even though they are both really important activities. Anyway, enough language logging for now. It's time for some Japanese. Edited by g-bod on 17 May 2013 at 9:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 215 of 436 17 May 2013 at 10:06pm | IP Logged |
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Thanks for posting that. I've been to that Japanese learning site before (the links are grayed showing I've clicked them) but that was a while back.. glad it is good. I will probably try it out in a couple weeks, and I'll say you referred me of course ;). I'm gonna just read read read for now, which I haven't done much yet in Japanese. I'll take a peak at your link on narrow reading but I don't need any convincing. I've done it already (fantasy genre of translations of authors I read years ago) and just didn't know it had a name. I love reading short stories and I have a short story book in Japanese (penguin parallel texts) but I notice a big change in style and vocabulary from story to story. It's more challenging for that reason for learners and I had the same issue before when I used their series for Spanish, German, and French. But I loved the stories a lot and ended up just enjoying the English translations for a lot of them. I'll get through this short story book eventually but I think I'll stick to narrow reading for now. (Harry Potter in my case)
*edit* which plan did you choose? basic? A lesson plan is neat but I don't think I'd pay extra for it... Edited by kraemder on 17 May 2013 at 10:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 216 of 436 17 May 2013 at 11:11pm | IP Logged |
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I'm using the basic plan, which fits my needs for the moment.
I have to say I've not really done much narrow reading. I tend to jump around a lot in my reading, I think because my gut instinct is that reading extensively means reading widely. But I've already noticed the boost you can get from "narrow listening" (I get a lot more from watching a drama series lasting several hours than I do from jumping between different episodes of different shows all the time) so it makes complete sense that "narrow reading" would also be a good idea. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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