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German: From Reading to Speaking. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Sukerman Newbie United States Joined 3601 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 1 of 7 07 January 2015 at 10:41pm | IP Logged |
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Hello.
Since I can remember, I have been always interested in learning German so I decided to teach myself. I am proficient in Italian, Portuguese and I can also read French so I was not a novice in foreign languages. After some research I read about -German Quickly- by April Wilson. In my case, I prefer to learn to read first, that is why I did not choose a traditional language course. So six months ago I finished -German Quickly- and started to read German newspapers and journals. (If you are interested just in reading, the Frequency Dictionary of German (Routledge) is great. After you study the first 1000 words your speed increases, you will feel it). Now I want to develop my speaking skills. I am considering to use Living Language Ultimate German both Basic-Intermediate and Advanced (2000 edition) to achive at least an intermediate level. Can you tell me your experience with these books? Have you done something like this, I mean to speak the language after you learn to read it? By the way, I want to recommend 2 websites: 1) http://www.voxeurop.eu This site publishes news in different languages and you may find translations of them. I believe it is a great option for those who like parallel texts. 2) http://www.nachrichtenleicht.de/ This site is great. You can read and listen to the news in what they call -easy German-. That means without complex grammar structures. From my point of view you need an intermediate level. Thank you for your time. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 4041 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes  Studies: German | Message 2 of 7 08 January 2015 at 3:22am | IP Logged |
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Hello Sukerman,
First, welcome to the forum! I have read through April Wilson's "German Quickly" a couple of times and, while I am surprised by your decision to begin your self-study programme of German with this book (a certain portion of the vocabulary is quite specialized), I must admit that your approach does have certain advantages. To a certain extent, I experienced something similar: I learned to read French fairly well, before having an opportunity to speak the language many years later. Also, I recall reading a study on language-learning that was published in 1980's that concluded: (a) students who learn to read a foreign language before learning to speak it at the same pace often lag behind the speaking ability of students whose programmes sharply emphasize the spoken language over the written language, (b) students whose programmes sharply emphasize the spoken language over the written language do, indeed, learn to speak "fluently"; however, their speech is often filled with grammatical errors that persist over long periods of time and these errors might never be fully corrected (bad habits are hard to break), (c) assuming that the two groups of students have an opportunity to function (that is, work or study) in an environment where the foreign language is spoken, the "advantage" that the "spoken language method" students enjoy over the "written language method" students lasts for no more than two years, at which time the latter will have reached a similar level of spoken language fluency, but will be making fewer grammatical errors. Many people may choose to disagree with the findings of the study; however, I am surprised how often the countless hours that I spent writing verb charts and diagramming sentences still influence my spoken French. As you are undoubtedly aware, there exists a substantial amount of material for learning German. Thus, part of the problem in designing one's own study programme lies in choosing which material would be most beneficial at each stage of one's learning. Some sold, basic programmes: Living Language "Ultimate" German I have used both the Beginner-Intermediate and Advanced levels of this programme that you mentioned. The texts take a conventional (or perhaps, what would now be considered as “used to be” conventional) approach of presenting fairly realistic situational dialogues, lists of new vocabulary, and succinct but very sound explanations of grammar. The material focuses on standard speech in predictable situations and is very sound. As an aside, the "Ultimate" series used to be sold as Living Language "All The Way" German. While the publisher changed the name, the contents of the two programmes are identical. Although Random House has ceased publication of these series, you can still find copies on the internet. Should you be unable to find a version with the audio files, send me a personal message via the "mail" function of this forum. The audio files come in two sets of CDs: Set A and Set B, both of which follow the lesson units. To avoid flipping between the two sets of CDs, I converted them to MP3 format and strung them together by Lesson Number. Thus, my set of audio files have been regrouped as: (Lesson 1, set A, set B); (Lesson 2, set A, set B); etcetera. Assimil German You might wish to consider the Assimil series. Their German courses are offered in two levels. Regrettably, only the first level is offered in an English-language version. However, if your French is up to the challenge, you will find that the second level course is worth the detour. Generally speaking, the Assimil programmes are highly regarded for the quality of their short dialogues and for presenting a somewhat more colloquial level of language than exists in many competing programmes. The dialogues might SEEM to lack focus or cohesiveness when compared to the Living Language lessons; however, they are HIGHLY effective in the aggregate. The only caveat with Assimil is that the explanatory notes can seem incomplete. Nonetheless, I strongly recommend that you combine your study of Living Language with Assimil, particularly since the former can seem a little dry. FSI German Basic Some people decry (some) of the vocabulary of the FSI German Basic course. Nonetheless, the pattern drills are fabulous for practising the language and it’s FREE! PRACTICE - PRACTICE - PRACTICE Within reason, irrespective of the material you choose, your STUDY PLAN and PERSERVENCE will be the deciding factors in your success. Good luck and enjoy your studies! Edited by Speakeasy on 08 January 2015 at 3:59pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Sukerman Newbie United States Joined 3601 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 3 of 7 09 January 2015 at 2:14am | IP Logged |
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Hello Speakeasy
When I was studying French I tried Assimil but I did not like it. I know many people have used it successfully but in my case I prefer a traditional approach that is why I chose Living Language Ultimate German. Yesterday I read some reviews about the older editions you mentioned. As you noted, the content is basically the same just a different publisher. These reviews are available through JSTOR (a database of academic journals) and were written by college teachers. The books reviewed were -Italian all the way-, -Spanish all the Way- and - French all the way-. Unfortunately -German all the way- was not included but all the other books got excellent reports so definitely I will use LL Ultime German. Listening and speaking were not part of my plan when I began to learn German. I was just interested in reading economic journals and newspapers but then I remembered the beautiful experience of listening songs or sports broadcasts in the original language. For example I like football (I mean soccer) and it is a very different experience when you enjoy the Italian or Portuguese football narrators so I hope someday I will be able to do that in German (and French!) Thank you for your advice. Sukerman. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| AlexTG Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 4627 days ago 178 posts - 354 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 4 of 7 09 January 2015 at 5:06am | IP Logged |
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Using a course can never hurt, but I'm not sure how beneficial it'll really be here. I've
also been learning German over the last year and initially focused on reading. When I moved to listening I found it to be a much easier transition than with other languages. German audio is just easy to make sense of if you can already read: glottal stops between words, word level stress, little adding and removing of sounds, a phonological spelling system (I.e German is the polar opposite of French which you've noted you can only read). So before starting a course I think you should try out some native resources and see just how much you already understand. You could also ease yourself into it with something like "Extra Deutsch", a short sitcom made for German learners, or the "Slow German" podcasts. (I'm focussing on listening here since 1. that seems to be what you're most interested in and 2. once you've learned to listen you can learn to speak by having conversations) Edited by AlexTG on 09 January 2015 at 5:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Sukerman Newbie United States Joined 3601 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 5 of 7 11 January 2015 at 1:23am | IP Logged |
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Hello AlexTG
You are right. I have been listening to the website nachrichtenleicht.de that is similar to the podcast you mentioned. I am sure this will help me a lot. I understand more than what I expected. About the course: I thought about it because I do not know what topics are covered in basic-intermediate courses. Thank your for your advice, Sukerman 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6586 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 7 11 January 2015 at 7:31am | IP Logged |
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How are your writing skills? And are you capable of producing written text, even if it obviously won't be perfect? Consider making a post on lang-8 and then solving the specific problems that are found.
Also, use your comprehension to your advantage! Definitely keep reading, and consider some popular books, maybe those written in the first person. You can read some parts aloud too (but definitely not the whole thing!) I do reading before speaking too, but generally I start with listening. Mostly football (eventually quite challenging stuff) and audiobooks (often with a translation, ie Listening-Reading). In Finnish, I didn't do enough listening, but later I found that listening is surprisingly good for your speaking skills. First of all, if you have any doubts about the pronunciation, see the fantastic dynamic diagrams and small videos (there's a mobile app too). See the various techniques here, especially shadowing. You could try playing with the sentences too. Find useful/cool structures and learn them this way. Also, beginner books will be boring if you can already understand journals. The great thing about beginner grammar is that it's everywhere. You can make your own exercises from native materials. Try lyricstraining too, to get music buzzing in your head. Personally I would think that's enough to keep you busy for a while, especially you also SRS some cool sentences you find, maybe with gaps (cloze deletion). I tend to think it's pointless to start speaking before you get your listening on par with your reading. But if you decide to use a course as well, don't fret too much about choosing the right one. Your methods and techniques matter far more. See the multitrack approach as well. BTW, how have you learned to speak Italian and Portuguese? (My two favourite Romance languages, even if my Spanish has surpassed my Italian :D) Edited by Serpent on 11 January 2015 at 7:36am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Sukerman Newbie United States Joined 3601 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Studies: German | Message 7 of 7 13 January 2015 at 12:21am | IP Logged |
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Hello Serpent.
Thank you for the info. This is an unknown situation for me because I always used a traditional textbook or a self-teaching method to learn foreign languages. Take it for granted that I will consider new approaches to learn German. About your final question: My mother tongue is Spanish so I had an advantage. I took Italian lessons (6 of 8 levels) but at that time I had a busy schedule so I did not care about it. Then I began to teach myself: I read newspapers and journals and also started to listen to Spanish covers of famous Italian songs. Fortunately, I could spent a summer watching RAI International and finally I started to understand the beautiful Italian language. Two years ago I finished the last 2 levels and the teachers told me that I could take the PLIDA for the C1 level. I did not take it but I did a good job teaching mylself. By the way, the video says: "Ancora Gargano...rimette dentro a cercare Lavezzi...Il "Pocho" che danza sul pallone...cerca ancora Gargano...rimette bene in mezzo a cercare...ancora Maggio...traversone...tutta porta...Cavani in mezzo...Ed e rete!" Portuguese was easier. I bought Teach Yourself Brazilian Portuguese and Teach Yourself Portuguese Grammar. I finished the book in two months and then started to read newspapers and journals. When I began to listen to brazilian stations I did not undestand a word. After 2 months I understood 70%. Currently, I can understand 90%-95% I like to listen to CBN Noticias. They broadcast news and brazillian football. Time ago I took some placement tests. According with the results I have an advanced level. Thank you for your advice, Sukerman. Edited by Sukerman on 13 January 2015 at 12:22am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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