24 messages over 3 pages: 1 2 3
Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6587 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 17 of 24 02 October 2014 at 7:02pm | IP Logged |
Well, deliberately suboptimal or accelerated audio are interesting techniques too. But not for reading.
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| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4298 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French
| Message 18 of 24 08 October 2014 at 10:13pm | IP Logged |
I just wanted to add that as I understand speed reading (e.g. Tony Buzan's book),
"subvocalization" is not something you mustn't do, but something you should mentally
speed up. I read no slower than one page a minute at optimum speed, in my native
language, yet I can hardly say that I have no sub-vocalization at all. That said, there
are much faster reading speeds so perhaps it is the final goal.
Besides that, speed comes by improving your reaction time to grouped chunks of words.
When you read a foreign language you are often surprised by two known words coming next
to each other, but given time you will become familiar with this "chunk" and be able to
register it as one. In this manner, becoming a good reader is like becoming a very good
predictor and recognizer of patterns in data.
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| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5756 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin
| Message 19 of 24 09 October 2014 at 9:12am | IP Logged |
Retinend wrote:
When you read a foreign language you are often surprised by two known words coming next
to each other, but given time you will become familiar with this "chunk" and be able to
register it as one. In this manner, becoming a good reader is like becoming a very good
predictor and recognizer of patterns in data. |
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Do you have any idea how to train chunk size in particular?
Edited by Bao on 09 October 2014 at 9:15am
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| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4523 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German
| Message 20 of 24 09 October 2014 at 9:29am | IP Logged |
Bao wrote:
Do you have any idea how to train chunk size in particular? |
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Isn't this just a question of using the language (reading/hearing) lots and lots?
Perhaps it's easy to see what would work against this would be lots of drilling with SRS type methods using single words.
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| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5756 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin
| Message 21 of 24 09 October 2014 at 11:39pm | IP Logged |
patrickwilken wrote:
Isn't this just a question of using the language (reading/hearing) lots and lots? |
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I would not think so if you consider yourself a slow reader in your native language despite reading a lot, or at least regularly.
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| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4298 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French
| Message 22 of 24 10 October 2014 at 9:34pm | IP Logged |
I don't know if learning the chunks (in L1 or L2) of a language can be isolated from the general
speed reading objective. "Collocation" is also the sort of thing I'm talking about. Knowledge in
this area just comes from exposure. But there are specific skills that sharpen mental discipline and
maintain optimum speed. After you master these, your improvement will be a function of how many
books you read, and how familiar you become with the subtler shades of cliche that exist in the
written idiom.
Specific skills:
Reading to a constant beat. This can be done by tapping your foot, tapping a pencil or just swaying
your head. The problem with slowing down is that you do it before you are conscious of it. This beat
will tell you when you start slowing down. I also use a stopwatch.
Progressing onward without revisiting sentences. Of course you need to do it sometimes, but if you
make it a rule that you will only re-read a sentence as a last resort, and combine this with a
constant beat, you will feel the pressure to keep your attention fixed.
Counting 1 2 3 4 5 6 7... in your head (with the subvocalization long and drawn out like
"ooooonnnneee.... twoooooooo") is a good way of minimizing the competing linguistic sub-vocalization
(like I said I'm not convinced it ever becomes a complete silence). I tend to count the sentences in
a paragraph, since it also helps to structure that paragraph better, in your mind.
Lastly, use a pencil or long stick on the page. You'll find that you only need to move from left to
right in the middle of the page (not extending close to the margins of the page) in order to
encompass everything with your eye movements.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6587 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 23 of 24 10 October 2014 at 9:44pm | IP Logged |
Yeah, the sentence thing is why I find audio very helpful.
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| Paco Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 4267 days ago 145 posts - 251 votes Speaks: Cantonese*
| Message 24 of 24 12 October 2014 at 8:59am | IP Logged |
I suggest you work through all of the following courses, or at least the first. These are
"speed reading" courses in the sense that it helps with your reading speed; they do
not teach the art of speed reading.
Speed Reading Course: Asian and Pacific Speed Readings
New Zealand Speed Readings for ESL Learners Book One
New Zealand Speed Readings for ESL Learners Book Two
3000 BNC Speed Readings for ESL Learners
4000 BNC Speed Readings for ESL Learners
All of the above can be found at http://www.victoria.ac.nz/lals/about/staff/sonia-millett
In the Introduction of the first book Speed Reading Course, the author
explains briefly the principle of the programme and what the desired speed is. The contents
of all of the books should present no difficulty to you since you have already read tons.
By the way, some scholars indicated in Papers from the Parasession on the Lexicon (1978)
that enhancing reading speed in one language has positive effect on that of other
languages.
Edited by Paco on 12 October 2014 at 12:33pm
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